Tuesday, March 9, 2010

Adult Palate Expansion

I am deformed.  I look nothing like my ancestors.  As a child, I had braces.  I was a frequent mouth breather.  At age 16, I said bye to my wisdom teeth.  I have only 24 teeth left.  My dental palate is not broad and sweeping; my jaw isn't square; my nasal passage isn't wide.  I'm a human being raised on a processed food diet, and this is the result.  When I first read Weston A. Price's book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, it was hard to find out that I'm not developmentally optimal.  I thought, "Well, crud, there's yet another thing that's wrong with me that can't be fixed."  I began comparing photos of myself as a child with some of the photos from Price's book.  Here's me next to a traditional Swiss gal:

See the lack of resemblance?  Check out the overall roundness of the Swiss girl compared to my more narrowed facial structure.  Compare my nasal passage to hers.  Cheek bones?  Jaw?  And, wow, how about them teeth!  This isn't due to genetics, as many of you know.  It's all about nutrition during the developmental years, as Price discovered.  Damn you, margarine, sugar, and white flour!

The other day I was thinking about how it might feel the have the facial features characteristic of the healthy cultures in Weston Price's studies as opposed to the narrow palate, brace-straightened teeth, weak jaw, narrowed nasal passage, and lackluster cheek bones that characterize my own facial structure.  If I were all of the sudden blessed with an optimal facial structure and all the teeth the good Lord intended me to have, would I breath easier?  Speak better?  Smile more fully and more often?  Have less tension in my jaws?  Feel a heightened sense of well-being?  While it's interesting -- if not somewhat depressing -- to imagine such a possibility, I never thought once that this would ever be achievable.  I guess you can say that's why I've come to terms with my deformed self.  I can't change it, can I?  What other choice do I have besides acceptance of my not-so-optimal lot in life?  Sigh.

I was impressed by a study about two twins recently referenced in Wise Traditions, the Weston A. Price Foundation journal.  One twin received palatal expansion, while the other did not.  Here's a photo that shows the dramatic difference in the two -- not just in their teeth, but their overall facial structure:

Impressive, eh?  It's readily apparent that dental appliances can make a huge difference towards regaining the facial structure of our ancestors.  But I'm far beyond the developmental time period during which such devices can help me attain a facial appearance closer to that of the human genetic blueprint, right?  These things only work for the growing child or teenager.  At age 18, the bone plates are fused, and there's no budging them.  Once you're an adult, there's no room for any adjustments, right?  Well, I began to wonder: Is there such a thing as adult palatal expansion?  And, if so, would it make any difference health-wise if I were to apply such technology to my own head?  Let's just find out.  (Google, you are my friend.)

The first website I came across, called Facial Development, is absolutely fascinating.  It's authored by Theodore R. Belfor, DDS, who has a clinic in New York state that actually specializes in expanding adult palates using a dental appliance called a Homeoblock.  From his website:

The Homeoblock™ appliance is a revolutionary patented oral device that is much like a retainer in looks, but the results go way beyond teeth straightening...The Homeoblock™ appliance works with the body, so that physiological changes occur naturally; developing the bones of the face and resulting in the strengthening of facial muscles. These changes occur due in large part to each person’s genetic potential  Often, facial development does not reach its potential due to the food we eat, polluted air and poor dental care to name a few.

Wow.  A dentist who acknowledges that facial development is influenced by diet?  I wonder if he knows about Dr. Price.  Browsing the website further, I came upon a paper that Dr. Belfor wrote called, "Facial Changes as a Result of Palatal Expansion in Adult Patients Using the Homeoblock Appliance."  Check out this before and after 3d image taken of one of his patients who used a Homeoblock:

Look closely and notice the differences in the cheek bones, chin, and lips.  Pretty incredible.  So not only does palatal widening make for straighter teeth, it also induces significant changes in the overall facial structure -- even in adults.  Dr. Belfor markets his work as a way of creating a more youthful appearance in addition to straightening teeth.  An interesting effect of palatal widening is reduced wrinkles.  But he's also very enthusiastic about other changes that occur with the procedure (emphasis mine):

 I am experiencing the most incredible excitement on a daily basis. I routinely expand adult underdeveloped maxilla and mandible taking the teeth along for the ride. There are many different goals, as many as there are different patients. However, the result is always the same; more prominent cheekbones, wide smiles, and strong jaws!"  

Prominent cheek bones?  Wide smiles?  Strong jaws?  Is this guy Weston Price incarnate?  So, wait a minute, how can any of this actually work if the bones are fused by age 18, as is commonly believed?  Well, let's let Dr. Belfor answer that one:

Bone is essentially plastic in nature. Tension and intermittent pressure persuade the bones to redefine at any age. In fact, our typical patient is between 30 and 60 years old. In the upper dental arch nature has provided a suture line front to back between the two bones that form the palate. This allows for an easy widening process and as the palate expands, the cheekbones as well, creating more prominence.

Okay, so maybe there's a chance for a "deformie" like me to experience optimal facial structure after all!  I would like a second opinion, though.  I  mean, isn't there a possibility of teeth relapsing or other complications happening?  Let's see what one scientific study had to say about adult palatal widening procedures and the risks involved, in this case using an implement called a Haas expander:

Rapid maxillary expansion (RME) in the adult is thought to be an unreliable procedure with several adverse side effects and, consequently, surgically assisted RME is considered the preferred procedure...Rapid maxillary expansion using a Haas expander was examined in 47 adults and 47 children...The results indicate that nonsurgical RME in adults is a clinically successful and safe method for correcting transverse maxillary

arch deficiency.

This study had a follow-up time of an average 5.9 years, and the patients' teeth remained in place.  Here's a dramatic before-and-after image from the study showing one case of palatal expansion, a 30-year-old female:

Now that's just amazing.  30-years-old and there's still room for correction of the dental arch.  I wonder, though, are there any health benefits to having the palate expanded and the resultant craniofacial changes that take place?  Dr. Belfor, what do you think?

Orthopedic jaw development, particularly arch expansion, allows for improved sinus drainage and widens airflow passages. This can result in snoring reduction and lessened symptoms of sleep apnea...Voice enhancement. Improved facial balance and skin tone. Arresting and reversing the premature aging of the face. 

 Sounds to me like it would be worth it.  Only one problem, I have no idea how much the procedure actually costs.  I'm sending an e-mail to Dr. Belfor to find out.  Also, I'm going to ask him if he's influenced at all by Weston A. Price, as he seems right there with the 1930s dentist philosophically.  If anybody out there has more information on the procedure, please leave your comments.

Here's one more link with an article and video on adult palate expansion: "Skull Stretching."

See "Popular Posts" to the right for all of my updates on palate expansion.


Matt Stone said...

Yeah baby. Great article. I didn't know about Mr. skull stretcher and his homeoblock. This is front and center in my world right now though. My girlfriend is only 3 months away from total reconstructive surgery of the jaw by the creator modern maxillofascial surgery. Interestingly, he had her get her vitamin D levels checked and said that it is very common for his malocclusion patients to have strikingly low Vitamin D levels, which he insists on correcting prior to surgery.

Thanks Ryan. You da man. As always.

Jonathan said...

Fascinating! Please do keep us informed about this project.

Aaron Blaisdell said...

Ryan, your story reads just like mine! I had braces, many teeth extracted, and now have a narrow face with narrow nasal passages. Since going paleo I breath much easier than ever before but still nowhere near what Weston Price describes in his book.

This sounds too good to be true, though it seems legit. I just worry about the profile photo. There was no information in your post on where the technique is applied. Is it to just the maxilla, or also to the mandible. In the profile after photo, the chin is more prominent than in the before photo, but this could only occur with bone remodeling in the mandible. I don't think a maxilla widening procedure shouldn't affect the mandible in this way. Thoughts? And please update us on the cost of the procedure! Thanks!

undertow said...

Wow excellent find Ryan, I too will say I was disheartened after reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, in the sense that I missed the developmental boat.

Just yesterday I started getting the mercury amalgams removed from my right side teeth, end of the month my left side. I went to this new dentist because he has Nutrition and Physical Degeneration listed on his website! We discussed my narrow arch, but only some options on how to straighten some of my lower front teeth. I will print out and bring the link you provided, this should add to the discussion.

Only thing I'm not liking is the device looks quite bulky to have in the mouth! Mouthgear!! Will have to read up on how long the expansion takes roughly... and if you can get this done in Canada.

Thanks again!

Michael said...

Great article Ryan! There is a Doc north of me (Seattle) that was/is big into this sort of thing. He was featured in The Last Chance Health Newsletter by Sam Biser a few years ago. Sam keeps a tight reign on all his stuff in terms of copyright but I will look him up again. The guy was doing some amazing work.

I also have you in my blogroll now so keep up the good work. :-)

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Thanks for reading, guys!


I dug a little deeper and apparently the Homeoblock can be applied to both the upper and lower jaw, which I assume was the case with the 60-year-old woman in the profile picture.


The Homeoblock doesn't seem anymore bulky to me than a retainer. Also, it's only worn at night or an additional few hours during the daytime, depending on your case.

Check out this video of Dr. Belfor, explaining how the Homeoblock works (for dentist training purposes):

Video of Dr. Belfor

Also, I ran into another facial enhancing technique called Neurocranial Restructuring. Interesting stuff ...

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


Also, there's a listing of dentists in Canada who use the Homeoblock here.

undertow said...

That is awesome Ryan, thanks for the feedback. I will have to see if I can get that list updated with my city!

Michael said...

Also, I ran into another facial enhancing technique called Neurocranial Restructuring. Interesting stuff ...

Yup, I believe that was the guy I was talking about, although he seems to have moved up in the world and no longer practicing in secrecy.

Half Navajo said...
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Half Navajo said...


nice article! I had functional jaw orthodontics done a couple years ago!! Its quite like the homeoblock. I went through three different sets of widening and pushing devices, then got braces thrown on for the last 7 or 8 months. It changed my face alot... i already had prominent cheekbones and jaw development, but it made them much more so. It brought my jaw forward some, and now my bite is perfect, which was the whole reason is doing the procedure. I am glad i got it done, and it did make me look more attractive...haha...

I did alot of research and read lots of books before i did it... its all very interesting and i am still really into holistic dentistry... i pretty much examine everyones i know teeth and dental history, and help them find a good dentist or orthodontist.

Damn Nutrition and Physical Degeneration... really shows you how fucked up we all kinda are... but we can all make great changes to our health as long as we're breathing.


shymouse said...

Have you heard of Hal Huggins (the mercury "guy")? He wrote a (1981, out-of-print) book called "Why Raise Ugly Kids?"

He speaks about the importance of diet in developing non-crooked teeth/facial structure--but he focuses a lot on sleeping position: repeatedly sleeping on one's stomach or side puts pressure on the teeth/cranial bones--deforming them. This is especially crucial during childhood (he also finds that most cases of infant death can be linked to stomach-sleeping, which makes it hard to breathe.)

I thought that it was too bad that I read Huggins's book too far out of childhood; but based on your post, perhaps I was too pessimistic: after all, after age 18, we have another xx years of exerting cranial pressure....Just a thought.

Half Navajo said...

Come to think of it... if i knew about blogs when i first started doing the Functional Orthodontics procedure i could have blogged about the whole procedure.... damnit... I took alot of pictures though... through the whole thing... then my macbook got stolen... and i didn't back up anything... soooo no photos.

It cost me about 5000 dollars... damn expensive. My Orthodontist was impressed that i already came in knowing so much about the procedure. She told me the upper maxillary can stretch, and stretch a great deal... she said it just had to be done nice and slow, and on the first appliance there was a bite plate on it... to transition my bite into its natural one. She also tole me new bone growth can still happen the older you are. When the teeth are being moved new bone growth happens, and when they are finally set the bone growth seals it... which is probably why the teeth don't relapse like traditional orthodontics... plus your bite is where it wants to be. I had to where my retainer for six months all the time afterwards... and now just at night... but i have gone two weeks without wearing it and my teeth don't move any... not even slightly.

I sleep on my back alot more now... and find that to be my favorite way to sleep since having the it done. I never use to get sinus problems, but now i just never have any kind of sinus problems. I use to breathe through my nose already, but now, i really love breathing through my nose... and flaring them...haha...

It took a year and a half... which isn't bad... i knew adults having it done.. and it was taking them alot longer. So its best to get it done as young as possible... after missing the growth years that is. One thing i didn't like about the whole thing is having the metal in my mouth. The braces part was the worst, and i felt that it messed with me in some ways... thank god it was only for 7months. I also opted for the invisalign retainers when i was done... friends who had traditional ortho told me not to because they all bit theres to pieces... i have had mine for over a year now.... i guess i don't clench my teeth like they do... another perk to this procedure.... oh yah.. i smile sooooo much more... and get complimented all the time....

if you have the money... its soooo worth it, and like i said the younger the better... i got done when i was 25... i have the rest of my life to live with this now!!! yeeehaaaaa!!!


Half Navajo said...
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team smith said...

thanks for sharing your story, half navajo! i would love to look into this for myself and i have already thought about the palate widening for my 5 year old, i just don't know where to find a dentist who will do that on kids. i had a device in middle school that was a permanent retainer with a key to notch it open a certain amount every week or so. i hated it! but i guess that was to widen my upper jaw before i got braces that i had to wear for 4 years. i truly believe they messed me up big time. i have a bump at the top of my nose bone that i did not have before i had all that done to my mouth.

what i wonder, though, is if a person has already had braces would the palate widener still work? wouldn't the teeth be pushed farther apart? i already have a large space between my two top front teeth that opened up after the braces came off and the orthodontist said that it would always be like that b/c my jaw was set.

i bought a couple of ebooks from this one website and i am learning about being dentally self-sufficient so i don't have to rely on dentists who only want to do crazy things to our teeth and don't teach us how to really care for our teeth that were designed to be kept for a lifetime.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


Thanks for sharing your story! It's encouraging to know that palatal expansion made such a huge difference in your life. I'm seriously looking at doing the procedure myself, and if I do, I will definitely document the whole journey on my blog. It's too bad you didn't document your facial restructuring -- but looking at your picture, it's apparent that you have absolutely beautiful facial structure.

Were you raised on the rez? Did you eat lots of sheep?


That book sounds really interesting. I'm going to see if I can get a hold of it. As far as sleeping positions influencing facial structure, I suppose it's possible since bone is so malleable during the developmental years, but I'm not so sure it makes enough of a significant difference to induce full-on deformities as seen in modernized populations. I mean -- controlling an infant's sleeping positions? Do we really have to coddle our kids that much?

Also, regarding SIDs, see my above blog post of the chat I had with Dr. Belfor. Thanks for sharing.

Half Navajo said...


i was raised about 20-30minutes away from the Navajo Nation. On a huge farm, orchard, in the middle of no where. I would eat Mutton everytime i went to visit my relatives though... sometimes fried bread, don't know if it was fried in lard or tallow though.. but alot of them are still useing those animal fats because they know it tastes better. I was also only breastfed for a few months, then my mom stopped producing milk... doctors tried to switch me to soy formula, luckily my mom smelt that shit and threw it in the garbage, and went to a neighbors farm who was had goats and got me raw milk. Thank god she didn't warm it up in the microwave either, when i asked her that... she asked if i was crazy. I still had some crap in my diet for sure though... some cereal, JIF peanut butter, some margarine on occasion... for the most part they always used butter or lard but thought they were being unhealthy, but we all like the taste sooo much more. I think being in the sun and outside helped alot with my developement and attitude, and would benifit alot of kids tremedously just from that if they have bad nutrition. Anways... thats kinda my story...

oh yah, also... i think the functional ortho might have helped my vision... i just got my colorado license, and forgot my glasses at the DMV, she said give the eye test a shot... and i passed... easily. Very strange... anyways no vision restriction on my license for the first time in my life!!


Roza said...

troy thanks so much for sharing!

I'm looking to get the same thing done, just hit 18, never "needed" braces, but my bite just doesn't sit right and I'd like to keep my wisdom teeth & have an optimally developed face, obv.

Can I ask, assuming you're subscribing to comments, what part of the country you found this dentist in?
I'm in Portland, Oregon.

I'm so glad I came across this!!

The only dentist I've ever been to has been what my family could afford, barely english speaking, filled a few cavities and sent me on my way to wait for the time when my wisdom teeth need to come out, ugh..

If it hadn't been for Nutrition and Physical Degeneration I wouldn't have known things like this were an option!

Half Navajo said...

Haha, thats funny Roza,

I got mine done in Portland!!! I went to a few different orthodontists in the area who did functional orthodontics, and decided to choose this woman named Martha Rich... she is downtown portland. I chose here because she is very knowledgeable, non toxic, and cares about the bite, and facial structure. Out of all the orthodontists i visited, she was the only one that assured me i wouldn't need crowns or anything like that to make my bite perfect... when my bite changed to its natural position, she shaped my teeth to fit. Martha is awesome though, and the whole staff is kick ass... i have referred many friends and random people to her. She is an expert in the TMJ disorder field, and correcting the bite.


hope this helps,


Jared Bond said...

Holy cow, man! You're deformed? Well, not judging by your picture! You look as though you could easily be one of the "healthy" people WAP photographed, brace-straightened teeth aside. Do you really have trouble nose breathing, or feel tension in your jaws? Because it sure doesn't look like it...

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


Thanks for the compliment! I've done a lot of facial structure analyzing, and I most certainly fit the description of "deformed" -- pinched nostrils, weak chin, undefined cheek bones. It's hard to tell when I'm smiling because this naturally expands my face and makes it appear more robust than it really is. I'm not as extreme of a "deformie" as some folks are, but I'm certainly not optimal.

I do have occasional (maybe once a year, during allergy season) sinus clogging issues. I can breathe through my nose (and I choose to), but my default is mouth breathing, as evidenced by pictures and video of me as a kid. As for my jaw, I had TMJ (temporomadibular jaw syndrome) until I was 22, when I began managing my digestion and diet better. Nowadays my jaw tension is more subtle but is definitely there.

I've developed a way to check jaw tension that might be an interesting exercise for folks out there: smile softly without opening your mouth. Make sure your top and bottom jaws are aligned -- the top over the bottom, the molars touch when the mouth is closed -- and upper and lower teeth slightly separated. Feel the supportive muscles of the cheeks and expansiveness of the face that happens. If this seems to relieve some tension and provide a feeling of well-being, then it may be likely that you have an underdeveloped face.

Our jaws should not naturally "hang" and require muscular energy to keep relaxed; rather, they should be supported in a tension-free position without trying through the musculature and skeletal frame of proper facial development. My lower jaw tends to fall forward and my entire face seems to drop down if I don't hold it in the relaxed smile position. A bonus to the aforementioned exercise is that, when the face is relaxed, other parts of the body begin to relax also.

Starry Nights Gallery said...

Thank you ALL, especially Ryan and Troy, for the interesting, the educational, and the experiential wisdom and advice! I now feel somewhat equiped with the beginnings of necessary knowledge to help my daughter.

Couldn't sleep tonight because my daughter is distressed (me too) by what effect her braces are having on her teeth! She's had them for a little over 7 months and they've done wonders in the straightening department; however, they have narrowed her palate! Not an enormous amount, but enough to have her orthodontist tell us that she needs to have two teeth pulled to make more room... two GOOD and VIABLE teeth. NOT going to do that. Tomorrow we meet with another orthodontist who I know uses palate expansion as part of his treatment. Hopefully, we've caught it early enough to undo the harm that's been done, but no way will I be sitting by for the next 18 months while more damage is done.

Again, I am so grateful for stumbling across this blog. Ryan, you are providing a wonderful service and knowledge base for so many of us out here looking and searching.


Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Hi Erika,

I'm so glad that this information was useful to you, and I hope that your daughter is able to receive palate expansion. Please do keep us informed of her progress!

Thank you for reading -- and for the kind words.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if palatal expansion can be used to make room for impacted wisdom teeth? That would probably be the most extreme application I'm thinking. Most people don't seem to interested in keeping them in the first place, so information is scarce. Any help appreciated.

puddleduck said...

I'm also interested, Anonymous.

I love this post and the comments. Thank you, everybody!

Gotta say something about this, though:

This is especially crucial during childhood (he also finds that most cases of infant death can be linked to stomach-sleeping, which makes it hard to breathe.)

My Mom wonders if infant death syndrome is more related to vaccines than anything. Creeping belly-to-the-ground is essential for an infant's correct brain development and organization. The bouncy play chairs (which, on top of keeping them off the floor where they should be, force a baby into a position his or her skeleton isn't developed enough to handle), and constant baby-wearing, are harmful. For more info, look into the Neurodevelopmental Approach.

But, back to facial development! When I was seven, my parents took me to a craniosacral therapist. One of my teeth was coming in crooked, and the therapist did a lot of work on it. Came in straight in the end.

My Mum was a health nut when I was a kid. I got carrot juice powder on my oatmeal, non-hydrogenated margarine spread on fresh-ground wheat bread, faux-cheese cashew sauce on my chicken, and was rarely allowed refined sugar.

Even though I had cavities until my mid teens (went WAPF at fifteen), my teeth look more like the after picture of the woman's arch. I have all my adult teeth. Think this is at least partly due to the amazing craniosacral therapist.

Oh yeah...My former Naturopathic Doctor is trained in Neurocranial Restructuring. Told me a kid suffocated because something went wrong (it burst? untied?) with a nasal balloon. My ND still was comfortable using the technique, but had to tell the story so I was aware of the risks.

puddleduck said...

Oops. Wasn't too clear up there. I never ended up trying NCR.

Anonymous said...

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Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


Thanks for sharing. Dr. Belfor had some interesting theories to share about SIDs having to due with facial deformities:

With a lacking craniofacial development, the 9th (Glossopharyngeal) nerve in the head, which controls swallowing, gag reflex, and speech, could very well play a role in SIDs in that arterial blood flow to it may be be restricted, which could lead to a lack of signaling to baroreceptors, Belfor says. Baroreceptors signal the central nervous system to regulate blood pressure levels and with their malfunction could lead to possible cardiac arrest.

Regarding the foods you were raised on: I wonder if your teeth are as they are because your diet as a kid lacked processed foods. I believe this one simple dietary adjustment could save most people a lot of trouble in the long run.

Craniosacral therapy for re-shaping the cranial structure -- that sounds plausible. Especially if the work is done when the patient is young and still forming. I'd imagine with adults it would take a lot more time.

I'll have to look into NCR. I'm hearing about more and more craniofacial restructuring techniques -- seems like there are a lot of options out there!

Lisa E said...

I'm SO happy to find this blog! I just finished reading Dr Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, and I also feel totally depressed! My upper palate is extremely narrow! I'm deformed!!!! This means there is pressure on my pituitary gland. I suffer from all kinds of health issues, I mouth breathe and hyperventilate....I've got endometriosis, candida, food allergies, all kinds of issues....

I'd love to widen my upper palate, but I don't even know where to begin this process. would regular braces that straighten teeth also widen the upper palate? OR does it have to be some special kind of braces that put more pressure on the upper palate and not so much on the teeth?
Lisa E

My Healing Journey said...

I just spoke with Pamela at the 38 Woodland Avenue location in NY at Dr Belfor's office. She told me that they get people flying in from Europe to have this done by Dr Belfor, so it's possible to actually fly to NY and then you learn how to do the maintenance on it yourself - so you don't have to fly to NY all the time. She told me that she had had braces twice before when she was younger and both times the teeth had gone back after she stopped using it. But that once she used the Homeoblock, her teeth had stayed in place, and that was 10 years ago. She also said that people do experience health benefits from using this device, so it's definitely not just about getting prettier teeth. Good to know because that's my one and only objective. I'll for sure miss the way my teeth look now, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I suffer from such poor health, this investment would be for my health and health only. Pamela also told me that this device is very different from regular braces. Usually they hurt and push on the teeth, the Homeoblock does not, it's more working on widening the maxillary bones (in the upper palate) and essentially, that way I understood it, the device stimulates the brain to continue developing the upper palate (since we're all underdeveloped nowadays..) and then the body itself takes care of developing the upper palate into what it's supposed to genetically have been, had the body been fed enough nutrients. So, this is totally fascinating. And it answers my question of wether any old braces could do the trick, the answer is absolutely not, it seems. So, I'm very excited.

Most importantly, there is a list of certified doctors on the website that lists orthodontists all over the US that can install the Homeoblock device correctly. Hopefully I'll be able to find a doctor that's not too far away from where I live since traveling is really hard on my health, and finances...

I can't wait! Though the cost of the Homeoblock won't initially help my financial situation, hopefully my health will return thanks to the device so that I can go back to having a normal life again.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Lisa E,

The Homeoblock seems like it's the way to go for widening the palate. Braces don't do squat in that area, as far as I know -- just a superficial change to the teeth, but the facial structure stays the same.

My Healing Journey,

Thanks for supplying this information! It's good to know that this procedure can be applied from a distance. I hope you are able to find an orthodontist close to you and that you experience healing from the widening of the palate. I believe a lot of chronic health issues come from a malformed facial structure and that a lot of healing can come from reshaping things as they're supposed to be (or at least close to it).

Good luck, and keep us updated!

Jared Bond said...

Well, I just have to dissuade people from thinking the homeoblock is a cure-all. I've had ALF lightwire treatment, which is pretty similar, for over a year now, and I don't think it did any sort of moving of facial bones. It expanded my maxilla and that's it. It may be better for some people, but it looks and feels kind of weird, personally.

I thought I posted here before, but I wouldn't trust NCR either. It costs a fortune, is mostly some sort of massage, they probably use that kinesiology shit and try to sell you a ton of other bullshit as well. The inventor, Dean Howell, seems pretty loony, because he's also invented this bogus looking "Bodie Box" that deals with "energy fields" and stuff (http://www.bodiebox.com/inventor.php) . There's a lot of that going around with the ALF too and has probably even infiltrated the WAPF.

Personally I'm looking to do full head surgery somehow, like what this woman did: http://candar.wordpress.com/. Also check out Matt Stone's GF on his blog. I'm tired of false leads and con artists.

Lisa E said...

Hey, thanks for your support. I just wanted to add that I also really like Matt Stone's website, 180degreehealth.com. I like it so much so that it inspired me to get off my low carb diet that I had followed for 3 years without any health improvements. I am going to do the first 30 days of resting and feeding myself well before I go ahead and get the Homeoblock. I have found several certified doctors in my area so I'm doing this for sure. I am not expecting miracles from it but think it will give me the best chance possible to heal over time. Primarily I hope it will help me with my stress levels as the narrow upper palate keeps pressing on the pituitary gland and I think that's a major problem for my healing. Thanks all for your input. And thanks once again for talking about this in your blog Ryan, it's been immensely helpful to not be alone in this. I'll be sure to keep you all posted.

Anonymous said...

Ryan - GOOD NEWS! My daughter and I met with Dr. Belfor today. His knowledge and experience are impressive. We left his office with loads of information and some peace of mind. Previously, we were told that my daughter would need two teeth extracted, but Dr. Belfor assures me that this is not the case. She has some issues regarding breathing, tongue posture, and swallowing, as well as the problems that the braces have created in 11 months, like an overbite, a narrower palate, a gap between top front and lower front teeth, and misalignment of teeth/cross-bite that didn't exist before. Luckily, this can all be addressed over the next few years with Dr. Belfor's treatment. She will most likely need to have partial braces afterward to address the gap in her bite between the upper and lower front teeth.

I hope this blog reaches a lot of people because it's tragic what people are having to go through. There are a multitude of issues to consider besides simply straightening teeth!

Starry Nights Gallery said...

Sorry Ryan... I posted to your blog back in April. Didn't mean to post as "anonymous" and just wanted to give you an update.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Starry Nights,

Thanks so much for sharing, and I wish you and your daughter the best of luck!

Face Restructuring said...

Hey Ryan

Thanks for your excellent article!!

I've been investigating palatal expansion, using completely natural methods, and I am absolutely convinced that it is possible to do this without any equipment or orthodontic appliances.

Essentially, I've been recreating the 'crack' experienced in NeuroCranial Restructuring, but simply by pushing outward against my palate, upper and lower.

I've made a YouTube video describing what I've been doing... here's the link:


Enjoy :)


Anonymous said...

Agreeing w/ Frank here....we've been seeing Leigh Ankrum in Tulsa for Cranio-Sacral therapy (CST) and are very happy with the results. Visits are a little pricey and insurance doesnt touch it, but for the cost of ortho surgery and appliances (both financial and physical) I would do CST first every time...and dietary changes too of course also. Actually, our dentist (Jim Maxey, Tulsa, OK) recommended CST first. Have no clue where you would fine the same services outside of Tulsa, but I suppose you could ask her. Shes on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1679734606&ref=sgm

Anonymous said...

Ok, so in the last couple of years I've actually E-mailed quite a few dentists about the Homeoblock and also researched ways to improve facial bone structure.

I actually haven't been able to get much information from the dentists because most of them say that they'd have to examine me first. So I saw a dentist about it, and he told me I wasn't a candidate.

There's also an appliance called the SOMA appliance that is fairly similar to the Homeoblock. It says that it can actually widen the cranium. Only problem is the only state I've found it available in is CT.

I've also heard some incredicle things about NCR (neurocranial reconstruction), which is suppossed to unlock the bones of the skull and fix a multitude of illnesses and conditions including TMJ.

I myself suffer from TMJ and have gone through a crazy maze of steps in order to actually start the correcting process. Starting with Kaiser (if any of you have Kaiser you know how they make you jump through hoops), then with x-rays, MRIs, a TMJ class, and now I'm working with a dentist. I had to wear a splint for almost a year and now I'm currently wearing braces and rubber bands. I may also need surgery to move my lower jaw forward if the rubber bands aren't enough.

What I've mainly found it is that there's not enough research that can tell you if something works or not. Once you go in and actually talk to these doctors and dentists they can tell you what will work for you and what won't.

Also be very skeptical about some of these treatments. They can be expensive and possibly dangerous no matter how good they sound. It's great that there's forums like these to help inform all of us so that we can have more knowledge before we take the next step.

Lisa E said...

Jared Bond:

Do you think you got any benefits at all from the homeoblock?

Lisa E said...

Half Navajo/troy

Did you feel that you became less stressed/more calm and such after doing the palate expansion? Any other health benefits like improved sleep? I saw you mentioned that you don't clench your teeth anymore. Was that a result of the expansion too you think?

I'm going to try Frank's self expansion until I can get a Homeoblock. I tried it today and was very surprised to find all these muscles inside my mouth that actually seem to have the ability to widen the upper palate over time. Only problem is that I'd have to remember to do it for hours every day and I suspect that the palate will push itself back once I'm not pushing it out. But for sure, it feels like the upper palate could become "softer" and more pliable.

Jared Bond said...

Lisa- No. I did hope that it would clear up some problems as described in Ray Silkman's article (see link), but it didn't. I at least wanted my bite fixed, but my teeth are splayed out and it looks weird. My practitioner would argue that we're not done with the treatment, but I've had it for almost a year and a half. From x-rays it looks like my maxilla has not lengthened forward at all, as I was told it was supposed to. Facial asymmetries may have been corrected, but it's hard to tell just from looking. I still feel that my midface and head in general are quite deficient, basically unchanged from before. Maybe it would be different for someone younger or something (I'm 25). I've written more about it here: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/raw-weston-price/fixing-narrow-palates-and-cranial-deformities/

Lisa E said...

Jared, Thanks for the info. I read your blogpost about the ALF Lightwire. I'm so sorry the ALF didn't work out for you. I totally feel your frustration as I myself have tried one thousand expensive treatment that mostly all led to disappointment. Hope you'll find what works for you some day! Thanks for helping us all by sharing your experiences. I'll probably have to try the Homeoblock to see if it will work for me or not, but now I'll have more realistic expectations and be prepared to totally waste my money if so be. It's so tough for us to try to correct all the things that have gone wrong due to the faulty nutrition of our culture.

Thanks so much for the info on calcium too. That's very helpful to me as I do supplement with it in a natural form (egg shell calcium) but I have been wondering about it cause it does seem to be excessive somehow.

Lisa E said...

Hi everyone, I've added a photo of my teeth on my blog so you can see how they look now. Definitely in need of the Homeoblock. lol:


I tried doing Frank's exercise but it was too much for my system. Jaw's hurting now. lol. I have to take it easy....

Anonymous said...

I spoke with a specialist on TMJ and on sacro cranial issues.  He told me that it may not be necessary for me to get the Homeoblock or anything else, that it's best to start by looking into the sacro cranial issues if there are any.  Of course he was a total specialist and probably salesman so it's possible that I just got sold to this.

But he was saying that some people that expand the upper palate don't re-grow bone in the area that is being opened up in the upper palate by the Homeoblock or the ALF device.   In those cases the teeth may either go back again or the person must wear invisalign or something for the rest of their lives....annoying of course.  

This is not what the people who are selling the Homoeblock told me, they said the opposite, that the Homeoblock will make it so that the teeth never move back, contrary to most traditional orthodontic devices.

Perhaps it also matter how fast you go.  I'd only wear my Homeoblock in the nighttime and it would take 2 years to finnish so hopefully that would work.  

Not sure what to do anymore....I wish I could speak in person with people who have actually used the Homeoblock to see what people's general experience has been.

The last thing I need is to spend this ammount of money on something that will only cause me more problems. I don't have a pain or tooth problem right now so it's a risk to start messing around with my teeth....

Anonymous said...

Hi Lisa - My daughter will be fitted with a Homeoblock device soon... probably within the next few months. We will be more than happy to post ongoing results on this blog. My daughter currently has braces, which will need to be removed and the teeth will be allowed to settle for 3 weeks before the Homeoblock is designed for her.

Anonymous said...

I am currently undergoing a slow palatal expansion (not surgery).

The newest way of widening a dental arch is through Damon Braces.

The orthodontist has to be a facial orthodontist that works with functional appliances and has experience with braces.

Damon Braces are gaining popularity and are actually a better option than the Homeoblock.
On top of widening a dental arch, it rebuilds several bones (which I've posted in detail on the Weston Price web site under Dentistry), it also fixed cross bites, malocclusions and short and uneven jaw bones.

It is my 3rd day of wearing braces and I already have movement in my teeth.


70% of his patients undergoing procedures like this are adults and he is familiar with the work of Weston A. Price.


Anonymous said...

Update on my Expansion :

I am the Anonymous above that gave out the name of the orthodontist doing expansions in Southern Idaho.

I just wanted to post an update on my situation, my first language isn't English so please excuse any mistakes in the grammar dept. ! lol

I am a 39 year old female currently undergoing slow palatal expansion on upper and lower jaw. I have a cross bite on the left side of my face which extended my left lower jaw outward and was visible from the outside, as an uneven jaw line. My entire right facial side is underdeveloped giving me an astigmatism in my right eye (slight, not major) thus having to wear glasses to correct vision. On that right side I've had impacted wisdom teeth as a teenager and they had been removed. I still had both wisdom teeth on my left side, which I had removed 1 week prior to starting expansion to achieve asymmetry.
2 rubber bands tug, pull and push in different directions to where the teeth and bone will grow so that my lower jaw will be lined up with my maxilla.
I also have 2 bite plates in the back so I don't knock off the brackets on my lower front teeth with my upper, since I have a slight overjet. I also have 2 crowns in the front, 1 of which also has a root canal.

It is now day 5 and I can push saliva between teeth that I couldn't before meaning they're already responding to the pressure. The wire that is in the brackets is spring loaded and once warm in your mouth wants to straighten itself...pulling all of your teeth outward. The front will be pushed together just temporarily until about the 3rd day when your body starts to produce osteoblasts and osteoclasts to move teeth.

I have started eating primal about 6 months prior to having my expansion installed...and getting plenty of sunlight during the summer months.

The pressure I feel is in the nasal bone, cheek bones, outside of my eyeballs bones, also above my eyeballs so the eyebrow bone I guess.
I also feel it in the bone near my ears, in front of my ear canal, my TMJ joint/bones and of course everywhere in the direct dental arches.

So far I am super happy with what is happening and it's only day 5 !!!

In 8 weeks the archwire will be exchanged to a stronger one...which will be the one that stays in until I am happy with results.

I'm on a primal diet, I try not to consume ANY phytates. I drink raw goat milk, take cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil.
The only sweets I have is fruits and a tea spoon of raw honey once in awhile when I run out of fruit.

If you're still afraid to start this process , don't be!
I am loving the feel of all this pressure, like growing pain all over again. It's good pain ... kind of like rough sex...:-)
Get this done, I think most orthodontists let you pay this off over time with no interest.

I've made a $750 down payment and have to pay $180,- for 2 years with no interest.


Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Great comments -- keep us updated!

Kathy said...

I have read some facts about Dr. Price's studies and works on facial structures. It's really amazing to know that bone structure in the face can affect how we look. My friend talked to me about getting braces when I moved back to small town Jackson, TN. Dentists however, still need to check and diagnose our teeth for proper treatment and adjustments. Well, I hope you had your palate expansion by now. It would be nice if you post some before-and-after photos.

Anonymous said...

Wow, it's great to see so many people going for palate expansion. It will be super interesting to see how we'll all react to it, if it will help us with overall health. I am especially hoping it will help improve my breathing and TMJ issues. I just ordered my palate expansion braces and will be getting them in a few weeks. It's currently being made. I'm glad I am a candidate for it, but man is it expensive.... Interesting that astigmatism can be related to this too. I think perhaps dyslexia might be related too.

Anonymous said...

Hi! Great info in here. Thanks! I was wondering if anyone could describe Frank's technique mentioned above for widening a narrow palate naturally, on your own. He had a youtube video but it is not there to watch anymore. Does anyone know what the process was? Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I'd also be interested in frank's technique.. About the damon ssytem, from what I understand the bone is not widened, just the arch is widened by moving the teeth. This appears to be a different concept. There is some ambiguity about this online and the marketing surrounding the product seems to encourage false conclusions. I recently had two appointments with orthos that use this system and they stated that the bone itself will not widen in adults with this system. You can of course push the teeth so that the arch is widened, but that works only with the confines of the existing bone structure.

Bianka said...

Does anyone have any more news on how they are going with the homeoblock? I am wondering whether anyone has experienced negative facial changes as a result of this device? I have been considering this for the past 6 months after a dentist said I had an underdeveloped, narrow jaw, and that simply putting a few veneers on to fix my crooked teeth would be a silly idea.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Hi Bianca,

I'm planning on having the procedure done in late December. I'll be providing updates on my blog once I have it done. I've never heard of any negative facial changes from the Homeoblock.

Dawn said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Rob A. said...

Hey Ryan,

Look forward to updates on the procedure. Saw that you're blogging again after your comments on Matt Stone's site. Glad to see you back.

I thought of something in this quote from up above:

'I've developed a way to check jaw tension that might be an interesting exercise for folks out there: smile softly without opening your mouth. Make sure your top and bottom jaws are aligned -- the top over the bottom, the molars touch when the mouth is closed -- and upper and lower teeth slightly separated. Feel the supportive muscles of the cheeks and expansiveness of the face that happens. If this seems to relieve some tension and provide a feeling of well-being, then it may be likely that you have an underdeveloped face. '

Reminds me of a section in Malcolm Gladwell's book 'Blink,' where he's interviewing some folks who research faces and how to read emotion and mental states from them. One scientist mentioned something fascinating- when he activates this certain set of facial muscles that feels like a frown, he actually starts to feel sad. And conversely, activating different 'happy face' muscles produces a sense of calm in him. Gladwell goes on to say that it may not be accurate to just say that our faces reflect our emotional states, but that they comprise them outright. That made me think of the little bit I know of eurythmy based on some comments by Thoams Cowen in an interview I heard- he said essentially: to feel good, you don't have to do talk about how your parents treated you as a kid, but learn to carry yourself appropriately. You feel good, based on the rhythm or movement of your body. This reasoning is based on the way each of us can look at how someone moves and tell a whole lot about their character before they even speak.

Anyway, I did this experiment, and did feel good, and I wonder whether any of the psychic distress we experience has its roots in the physical degeneration that we experience in our facial structure that habituates us to these 'frown faces.' Really fascinating to me .

Thanks again Ryan

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


I had four bicuspids removed -- 2 upper and 2 lower. I'm pretty sure I stopped mouth breathing in high school. Maybe I just developed a little more airway space as I grew. I consciously started breathing only through my noise around age 20 when I began meditation practices. Though I can breathe through my nose, often times it feels like forced air. Hopefully, the homeoblock will help open up my airway and relieve this sensation!

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Rob A.,

I received your comment via e-mail, but it hasn't appeared on the site for some reason. I think there are some issues with Blogger.

Just wanted to say that I share many of the thoughts you have regarding facial structure as a root cause of a diminished sense of well-being. I think this would make a good blog post at some point, and I will certainly give you credit for it. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Here's Rob A.'s comment that wasn't posted for some reason:

Hey Ryan,

Look forward to updates on the procedure. Saw that you're blogging again after your comments on Matt Stone's site. Glad to see you back.

I thought of something in this quote from up above:

'I've developed a way to check jaw tension that might be an interesting exercise for folks out there: smile softly without opening your mouth. Make sure your top and bottom jaws are aligned -- the top over the bottom, the molars touch when the mouth is closed -- and upper and lower teeth slightly separated. Feel the supportive muscles of the cheeks and expansiveness of the face that happens. If this seems to relieve some tension and provide a feeling of well-being, then it may be likely that you have an underdeveloped face. '

Reminds me of a section in Malcolm Gladwell's book 'Blink,' where he's interviewing some folks who research faces and how to read emotion and mental states from them. One scientist mentioned something fascinating- when he activates this certain set of facial muscles that feels like a frown, he actually starts to feel sad. And conversely, activating different 'happy face' muscles produces a sense of calm in him. Gladwell goes on to say that it may not be accurate to just say that our faces reflect our emotional states, but that they comprise them outright. That made me think of the little bit I know of eurythmy based on some comments by Thoams Cowen in an interview I heard- he said essentially: to feel good, you don't have to do talk about how your parents treated you as a kid, but learn to carry yourself appropriately. You feel good, based on the rhythm or movement of your body. This reasoning is based on the way each of us can look at how someone moves and tell a whole lot about their character before they even speak.

Anyway, I did this experiment, and did feel good, and I wonder whether any of the psychic distress we experience has its roots in the physical degeneration that we experience in our facial structure that habituates us to these 'frown faces.' Really fascinating to me .

Thanks again Ryan

Anonymous said...

Ok, another update on my expansion!

It has almost been 4 months. A lot has changed in my face and mouth.
For one, the crossbite is completely fixed, all crooked teeth are in proper position now, everything is lined up.
The upper front is now lined up with the lower front and teeth kind of fit together like a glove...not 100% yet, but I can for the first time in my life comfortably rest my lower jaw inside my upper without having to hold it there with muscle strength. My jaw does not 'hang' there anymore but has a place to rest and my face is able to relax.

Something weird is happening on the outside of my face, it seems to be getting wider, the cheek bones seem to be more prominent and are starting to poke out. My eyeballs feel like they're more sunken in my head...and not so bulgy anymore. Which I'm very happy about.

Also my eye strain from my astigmatism is completely gone. I haven't had a single eye pain episode since the braces/archwire was put in. Now the astigmatism itself can't be cured so I hear, you can't grow your retina in a different place...but then again they also said adults can't widen dental arches without surgery, so...who knows, right?

My tongue (for the first time in my life) has enough space to be kept flat and wide inside my upper dental arch. My weak chin seems to be coming forward.

Now this is only after 3.5 almost 4 months, I can't imagine how wide and awesome this will be when the 2 years are up.

I have nothing negative to report so far...I recommend this to everyone with a small and narrow palate like me.

Anonymous said...

Are you using ALF? Damon braces? or Homeoblock?

abc11765 said...

Hi. I am a 44 year old female and I had orthodonics done when I was 12 for a severe overbite otherwise known at that time to my friends as "buckteeth". My orthodontist's strategy was to pull molars and shove my teeth back to the point where my nose projects and my chin recedes. In addition, my mouth is genetically narrow. I've grown used to the look of my face but I've ALWAYS been self conscious and dreamed of one of those wide proud smiles. I could cry now knowing there were other strategies that would have changed my self image and I am at 44 now seriously considering some of the options I've read here. I live in Reno NV. I am looking for a reliable orthodontist I can trust. Does anyone know of an orthodontist closer than the one mentioned in this blog in Southern Idaho. I'd be willing to drive to Sacramento, CA which is only a 2 hour drive. Obviously I want to be in the best of hands if I'm going to invest time, money and emotion in this endeavor. Thanks in advance! And THANKS RYAN FOR BLOGGING THIS TOPIC. WHAT A SURPRISE TO SEE I"M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH TRAITS THAT WE DREAM CAN BE CORRECTED.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

First, thanks to Anonymous, December 27th, for the update on your palate widening procedure -- sounds like amazing changes are taking place for you!


I'm so glad that this information is helpful to you! There is actually a dentist in Las Vegas listed on the Homeblock website. There are a few more in Henderson, NV, as well:

Isom, Blair A., DDS.
Family Dentistry
4032 North Tenaya Way
Las Vegas, NV 89129
TEL 702-645-1323
FAX 702-645-8807

Nisson, Robert, W. DDS
Newton, Todd, W., DDS
Timpson, Corry, L., DDS
Office #1:
Anthem Village Dental
2571 Anthem Village Drive
Henderson, NV 89052
TEL 702-454-7704
Warm Spring Dental
1525 W Warm Springs Rd # 100
Henderson, NV 89014
TEL 702-454-0818

Best of luck to you. I hope you can find a good people to assist you!

Anonymous said...

To the Anonymous posted on 28.December, 2010:

I have Damon Brackets on my teeth and I'm not sure about the wires...before starting this though the Orthodontist said he will be using Damon archwires also because you can get a wider arch with those. I'll have to ask again next time I see him which won't until March this year.
Everytime I get a new and thicker wire my teeth are back on the move and kind of don't fit together for a couple weeks or so. I still have the 2 little bite blocks on my back molars so I'll have a flat surface to rest my jaw on until I get back to everything fitting like a glove again. Couple brackets that are on ex-crooked teeth need to be moved...it was hard to calculate where they'd end up when straightened, so those 2 brackets will have to be moved into the new, better position for these 2 teeth.
Sometimes the wire slides to 1 side making your teeth move with it. Mine used to do that last month and they now just put a couple stoppers in to prevent shifting.

The worst part about all this is the day the brackets are put in and to about 5 days after that. If you make it past the first week, the rest is cake walk!

I still have nothing negative to report:)

Anonymous said...

Hi everybody. Need help making a decision for son who is 14 and a half. Should I have orthodontist put in palate expander with micro implants to expand his upper palate? His upper palate is currently 30 mm. His Lower is 33. Dr. Says he should be able to expand another 6-7 mm width wise. He also needs to be brought forward but that can really only be done with surgery. He can try a face mask also but may only get a mm or two at this late age.
I worry about the psychological effect this all may have on my son. Surgery would be the best option but cannot be done until adult. I just want my son to be able to keep lips together and nose breathe .
Also has anyone had their turbinates reduced to help with breathing?

Mar said...

You have given me hope about palatal expansion in adults! I have a VERY asymmetrical face and jaw problems, and have just made an inquiry about Homeoblock from a local dentist.

I'm also well aware of Dr. Price and his research. If only the rest of the world knew!

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous post on Januray 25, 2011.

I saw a teenage boy and his mother in the store the other day. The boy had a giant metal bracket on his head..with bars sticking out from his mouth and around the side of his face. He could nto close his mouth because of these bars. He also wore braces on top of the big head bracket...and had surgery done to split his maxilla and get a palatal expansion.

It was a picture of horror. His face was swollen, he could not talk, he could not close his mouth, I dont know how he would even sleep or lay his head down. All of his head bones were cracket at the sutures. He drooled excessively. Every week, the front screw bars sticking out of his mouth had to be turned to bring the maxilla forward.
If my mother would've done anything like this to me EVER I would've hated her forever. No way would I put my 'normal' looking child go through something like this. This boys face looked like something crawled out of a test lab.

Nerve damage and floating bone fragments have been reported from doing Palatal Expansion Surgery. Also there is a high risk of relapse.
You want to do SLOW palatal expansion...it is the most stable way of remodeling bone. He still grows until the age of 30...dont believe this 18 years the bones are done bullshit from doctors. The top of the head isnt fused until age 30!!

Put him on a reinforced diet of grassfed liver, fat soluble vitamins and minerals, raw milk, bone broth, etc...
Slow palatal expansion has a 0 % relapse chance if he wears his retainer for 2 years afterwards and stays on a primal nutrition.

Hope this helps

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous from December 28, 2010:

The brackets are Damon and the 'wire' is also. This is my 3rd 'wire' and it is actually not a wire anymore, it is literally a prybar. No twisted wires...1 solid piece of metal that's about 1/2 mm x 1mm in thickness, rectangular...looks like a miniature prybar.

Anonymous said...

I am happy to have found this blog. I got Damon braces put on in November. I have a very narrow palate and was told years ago I would need palate expansion surgery and upper and lower jaw surgery to fix my cross bite. Every website I've visited (and there have been many), states that palate expansion can only be done in children and surgery is the only option for adults. I hope more people will share their experiences here and give people like me hope that it can be done and the results will last. I'm only on my second wire in Damon's; my orthodontist said in May or June we will begin expanding my upper jaw. I can't wait! Thanks everyone for posting your experiences and keep them coming!

Anonymous said...

I just got finished with my jaw wideners that my orthodonist recomended due to a very narrow sinus and problems breathing. He also told me to tape my mouth shut to force me to breath thru my nose. Mouth breathing is very bad and attribute to sleep apnea. I know his sounds horrible but trust me after doing it for the last 4 months i can tell you it has forced me to breath thru my nose and if you cant breath while sleeping you will automaticlly take it off. It is subconscious but you need to tape until you wake up in the morning with it still on and periodically check yourself. After 3 months with the wideners both my upper and lower jaws have moved to the point where my face has widened enough to make a tremendous difference. (apprently it was suppose to take 9 months but I was able to tolerate the tension so moved it myself quicker)

Virginia said...

Oh by the way I'm 39 years old. My orthodontist is in Tustin Ca, he also does nasal therapy to jumpstart better breathing. My name is Virginia but I posted anonomously
a accidently

palta said...

Hey everyone,

I usually don't post on blogs but this article is so informative I had to. I have been looking for a solution like the Homeoblock for several months.

I recently talked to Dr. Belfor and he did some analysis on my facial structure. It was exciting because he let me know that I am a good candidate for the Homeoblock.

I wanted to know from other people's experience, how much can the Homeoblock actually widen a person's face and jaws? It seems the distance the face can be widened is determined by the person's genetic potential. I look forward to hearing other people's results!

Anonymous said...

I thought long and hard about posting this. My experience with adult palate expansion has not been as positive as some of those posted here. My face is now uneven, my smile much less attractive and my eyes look sunken. I do not breathe better. My orthodontist at the time was very experienced.
Also, to reply to an earlier comment about how the chin seems to move forward on the profiles - it was explained to me (correctly or not - I'm not sure) that widening the top jaw can unjam the jaw joints allowing the btm. jaw to drop somewhat and then slide forward on it's own.
If you are embarking on this journey I wish you all the best.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Anonymous 3/14/11,

What palate expansion appliance did you use?

Suvetar said...

Another update on my expansion (non surgical) using Damon Brackets and archwires:

I am on my 6 months mark. My lower jaw expanded quicker than the upper (partially because the upper was held back by some rubber bands.
On my next appointment I will have digital xrays done, another mold and photos to see how far it has all progressed.
My upper and lower front teeth are currently in some c-chain rubber thingy, which I totally hate because I think it hinders progress. It's to keep things in line and I think it's moving the canine teeth forward. This will hopefully give me a nice broad front.

Something really cool I've noticed though. I am no longer dropping my lower jaw down to rest my tongue there and have my lower jaw just hangthere. What has happened is the bulgy area under my face, the part right above the adams apple where all the glands sit,is getting tighter and is tucked in.
I am resting my tongue in my upper palate and that's what it's doing to the soft tissue right under my lower jaw at the top of the neck line.
I am sorry if I can't explain it any better my first language isn't English.

Ryan, I'd like to e-mail you all this progress when I feel enough progress has been made to be worth documenting. Let meknow if you're interested at mooprules@hotmail.com.

I just don't know how I would get xray pics on the PC.

Oh and btw, I still have nothing negative to report :-)

Dana Seilhan said...

I love reading about this. I had thought the palate expansion only made sense in kids. Now to hear that adults can get it too--that gives me some hope.

I have a passport photo from when I was four years old that, being a passport photo, was a full-on shot of my face. You can see my smile is crooked THEN, and baby teeth just about never look crooked. It got a lot worse when my permanent teeth started coming in. It was so bad that my two front upper incisors were not the same length and there was a huge gap between them and my jaws were misaligned enough that I was a slow eater, which at my age at the time was a major source of stress with my parents.

I got one set of orthodontic braces on my upper teeth when I was in second grade; those were removed probably a year or two later. Got another set after that which was upper and lower teeth. That go-round I wore a headgear at night for part of the treatment. Also sometimes had to wear rubber bands connecting my upper jaw with my lower, so as to nudge the lower jaw into something more like a reasonable position.

gotta continue next comment... stupid Blogger...

Dana Seilhan said...

I remember upper teeth being pulled at some point. I was still pretty young and I somehow parsed it as baby teeth being removed early. Now I think they were pulling my two outer incisors on top--you know, your two front teeth have the incisors on either side of them? Mine are gone. I look like a frigging vampire because it's two front teeth and then hello pointy canines.

My smile is crooked. I have to remember to crank one side up more than the other or I look ridiculous. The midline of my face is still not straight either. My mandible still looks underdeveloped too. I barely have a chin. And I've never really felt like I had enough room for my tongue in my mouth--fortunately I lose awareness of it most of the time, or it would drive me insane.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for what was done for me--I could never have gotten along in life if it had not, and I think awareness of that fact inspired my parents to spend money they really couldn't afford. But I'm kind of pissed off that it never occurred to orthodontists back then that they should try a different approach. I know for a fact there were palate wideners back then (I was a kid in the late 70s to early 90s) because I remember seeing mention of them in my patient handbook the orthodontist sent home with me.

If he'd just used that, God, just what he would have saved me. I have never looked exactly right, people think I'm grumpy all the time and I always get passed over. It's frustrating.

My mom, as poorly as she's always taken care of herself, has a wide face and straight teeth. Never one problem in that arena. Nice high cheekbones too. I guess mine would be high as well, if you could freaking see them.

I don't see why insurance companies call these types of concerns "cosmetic." I'd say not developing into your own actual face is a bit worse than "cosmetic." It's like being born with your nose missing or something. I don't want plastic boobs, I just want my face more like it should be.

So I'm glad to be finding info about adult palate-widening... I don't know if or when I will ever be able to get it done but at least now I have a goal to work towards. Thanks for your post.

Suvetar said...

Jaw/Dental Arch widening with Damon System:

Okay, so for the last 7 months I've had Damon Brackets and archwires on my teeth to widen both my upper and lower jaw.
For those considering this (which I highly recommend because it can fix everything from bite height, to crossbites ,uneven jaw lines and narrow palate) I have to mention some facts about this that nobody tells ya.

The first week hurts like hell, which is normal and then the pain tapers off. BUT, compared to other methods, Damon archwires get thicker and stronger and aren't wires later on....they're literally prybars. And the pressure is increased so much that it turns into a RPE = Rapid Palate Expansion. I can feel the tearing on my sutures in the maxilla bone. On some days the pressure is unbarable and I have to take a painkiller to keep sane. And this is still after 7 months of wearing them. And this isn't the strongest 'wire' yet, I'm far from done. In order for bone to respond and teeth to stay within bone a certain degree of pressure has to be applied,so teeth don't move out of the bone, but instead the entire bone moves.
So the beginning of the treatment is mostly tooth movement with light pressure. Pressure is increased over a 9 months period and gets exchanged to a stronger one every 8 weeks.

Forget sleeping on your belly...you will barely be able to put your face into a pillow. I can't even handle the slight pressure from sunglasses on my nose bridge...since my nasal bones want to expand, and the sunglasses push the nasal bones together. Wearing a baseball cap? hehe...maybe if the strap is really lose.
Sometime during all this I could even feel it on the back of my head and just slept on my back with a towel rolled up under my neck so the back of my skull wouldn't touch anything.

The head is full of nerves...you'll feel this pressure around your entire skull.
Bone remodeling is supported by a healthy diet as described by Weston Price. Grains bind with minerals and steal the body of vital bone building materials...sugar screws up your glands and send signals to demineralize bone and teeth. Try to avoid both as much as you can.

Take Cod Liver Oil together with High Vitamin Butter Oil with every meal. I also recommend taking a clay mineral supplement... I personally take Azomite, red clay. Saturated fats chelate rock minerals and make them highly bio-available. Go to your local farmer's market and buy healthy meats...and don't forget about bones with marrow!

Good Luck everyone!

Farmer Field said...

Ryan, you said you were planning to have the Homeoblock procedure done in late December. Have you done it yet? What are the results so far?

Anonymous said...

For those that can't breathe through the nose at night due to a big honker with giant 'nose flaps' that close up due to gravity you can buy Nose Dilators, or Breathing Dilators online.

Just do a search in Google and a bunch show up.

yellow said...

Frank's video about self-palate-widening is no longer on youtube,

but I tried to do something like that myself,

just stuck two thumbs in my upper palate off and on for 20 minutes,

and I do notice a difference (from doing this for 20 mins one time, first time today):

-feel smarter and more alert(CSF flowing?)
-getting some drainage in the back of my throat
-head feels less pressurized, less tension in forehead
-can breathe better through both nostrils

so yeah, maybe some intra-mouth "CST" would be helpful.

I also imagine finding an optimal sleeping position would be good. That's 8 hours a day you're pushing on your head in one way or another and it does have the potential to change head shape, as I noticed when my head started changing shape due to a certain way I was sleeping temporarily due to another health problem.

I seem to feel good if I sleep with a neck roll to support curvature of neck bones, and it gives a slight occipital lift, but i'm still researching and experimenting.

Primal Palate said...

For all parents that are looking into this for their children check out the newest little gadget from Europe.


Primal Palate said...

Reading the testimonials seems like adults are starting to use it too.

And the video in this one shows a glimps of Weston A. Price on the monitor in the background...very impressive.
They also agree that malocclusions and underdeveloped faces and jaws are enviromental, not hereditary.

Here is the link of the other video:


Anonymous said...

How long would it take to get my dental arch widened?
Does anyone know? I cannot find a single article on this question. Everything says it varies..and the distance varies.. so basically I'm left in the dark.
If I'd have my slow expansion in today how many months or years would it take to regrow a wider dental arch?
Someone told me it's really slow if the sutures are fused but would go quicker if the palates are split first. But then was told that palates move back into their old position and fuse again if there is no stud or other kind of metal clamps attached to the different bone pieces.
I've looked up SARPE and that just looks painful and unnatural, having your face bones cut into different pieces ..ouch.

Suvetar said...

Well...I'm on my last wire before the actual expansion.
I've talked to my Ortho about the archform we both would agree on would be best for me and looks like I'm going to have a square arch form when done.
Atm, I am back in full elastic chains + rubber bands for canines.
So...I won't have another update until July 27th, when the actual expanding wire is being put in.
For those considering an arch expansion look into the different arch forms, called Ovoid, Tapered (Euro) and Square.
Square seems by far the most attractive one to me with the greatest expansion being done at the canine/premolar region.
Tapered (euro) looks hidious to me, like a row of teeth with no life. Ovoid would be okay I guess, but it leaves the width between canines narrower and the greatest width is gained at the last molar.

That's how I understand it anyways.

Kim said...

has anyone tried the T4A (Trainer for Alignment) as an adult? it's says it can work on patients aged 15+ to stop mouth breathing and align teeth


Eisenberg said...

Hi Kim,

the T4A looks promising, except people that are mouth breathers because of a deviated septum and a small upper palate need medical treatment first (i'm guessing surgery) to be able to keep their tongue in the upper position and lips closed, which is VERY hard for people that have breathed through their mouth their entire lives.

I also don't see where they fit that thing exactly to your palate. It looks like they use "One-Size-Fits-All". And it doesn't mention anything about actually expanding the arch...it just aligns teeth so that the jaw can be in a proper position...but if the arch isn't expanded how can the tongue ever move up?

Make your tongue flat and wide and see how far it expands beyond your premolars and molars. THAT would be your natural, genetic size of the actual dental arch if things would've developed to their full potential.

Anonymous said...

This blog has been a great resource to me in figuring out what went wrong with my orthodontic treatment! Had headgear, braces for 5 years and I have all of the typical deformations -- long, narrow flat face :(. I am dead set on fixing it -- will be getting two-jaw surgery to bring the face forward, but before that I am convinced palate expansion is a necessary step. Unfortunately, my bite is "perfect" as noted by several orthodontists. They are hesitant to expand the upper jaw because it won't match the lower. However, my lower teeth are tipped inwards quite a bit, so I'm wondering if I could expand my upper jaw and just tip the lower teeth outwards with braces to match?

Sigh...the multitude of problems that traditional retractive orthodontics creates for us. At least there are options out there.

How to care for oral hygiene said...

I google around and saw this blog, it does help me to realize about homeobloc but then it's too late for me, i should have done research before extract my teeth for braces. This is my 2nd time of wearing the brace, now i'm still wearing the brace for 7 months already to close the gap, but then i don't like my face changes so skinny and narrowing arch. Please, if anyone in this forum knows what type of appliances i can wear to open the gap again. I got 4 teeth pulled last November, so regretted for dumb decison.

ckwrst said...

HELP ASAP! Im 29, crossbite, small upper lower palate
I'm about to have two expanders then later braces with a possible molar extraction. This happens next week.

My problem is my narrow jaw...I hate it. my orthodox says not much will change facially. I want it widened. I'm so confused... it sounds like surgery is the only way to change your jaw. But people here make it sound like slow expansion will widen my face and correct this underbdevelopment. I put 1750 down already for the expander and now have no idea what to do!? Help

Primal Palate said...

Hi ckwrst,

I recommend against molar extraction, unless it's the wisdom teeth. No other teeth other than wisdom teeth should be extracted, and those only then if they are impacted to the point that the orthodontist cannot put the brackets on.

Do not let them extract teeth. The damon system can put ALL teeth into their correct position, regardless of how crooked or narrow your mouth is. If you have any doubts get your money back asap and find an orthodontist that does expansions the modern, slow way, through bone remodeling. It is okay to have a narrow face, you can still have a wide palate that will genetically be correct for your body/face type. Many cultures have narrow faces but are still fully developed, not all races have a round face. The dinarid (white european race) has a long face. Weston A Price did not mention any of those races but just focused on cultures with broad, round heads. Many people of middle eastern descent have very narrow faces but wide, big dental arches with a perfect bite and all 32 teeth.

Primal Palate said...

Also, there is a difference between wide palate and wide dental arch.
If your palate is narrow that doesn't necessarily mean you have a narrow dental arch and crooked teeth.
The palate is the entire bone, the actual dental arch is what really matters. It's the part of the bone where the teeth sit in. That is the part where the slow expansion takes place, and will trigger the entire facial bones to remodel themselves, according to that pressure. The further away the bone the less bone remodeling. You do not need surgery to widen the dental arch, but you would need surgery to widen the palate, if you'd like a significant wider face, and even then it's barely noticable. They usually only do those surgeries on Down Syndrome (pulling maxilla forward) and Crouzon Syndrome (narrow face that can't support the eyeballs).

So palate and dental arch are 2 different things. What you want is a perfect dental arch that fits your genetic makeup. By the end of treatment you should be able to rest your tongue inside the upper dental arch, hugging the upper palate and resting all teeth comfortably on top of each other with a perfect fit. The lower jaw should not be held back, there should be no tension. Your jaw muscles should snap your mouth shut and support the perfect resting position for all the soft tissues, including the lips.

Hope this helps, good luck :-)


ckwrst said...

Starting to make more sense. I did make a mistake earlier in suggesting molar extraction. I meant the wisdom teeth. But through slow expansion I will see some facial change?
Slow expanders widen the arch?
What exactly does sarpe surgery widen?
Would sarpe achieve results I'm looking for not possible with palatal expanders?
I'm not looking for a huge change... not to sound conceedeed but people tend to say I'm very attractive. So its not vanity. But when I look at myself the width feels off and feels unnatural. I'm just curious if this can be achieved...

Primal Palate said...


try and watch some YouTube videos of people having SARPE done. And don't forget to watch and research people where SARPE has gone wrong. Permanent nerve damage, numb lips, crooked healing of facial bones, relapse rates are high. Also, you need braces anyways after sarpe.
Is it better to break the facial bones and saw some of them off, replace bone in other places to try and get a wider face? Or is it better to focus entirely on the bite, letting bone slowly remodel itself and achieving the perfect bite you've always longed for?

I have talked to 2 different orthodontists. The first one told me expansion is not possible through braces and can only be achieved through surgery. The second told me surgery isn't needed, there are new methods (which they needed training for that costs money for the entire staff) that can achieve a wide dental arch through bone remodeling. Now the first one suggesting surgery did not know about the new methods and does the old fashion way of setting teeth straight through pre-molar extraction and train tracks that don't alter the dental arch one bit.
The second called himself a facial orthodontist, taking into account your genetics and facial aesthetics. If you don't have a malocclusion right now and get surgery, chances are your entire bite is out of alignment...and if it was me I would not want Ortho #1 doing my braces afterwards.
Ortho #1 isn't spending any money on updating his staff and himself to the newest standards, making him just a money greedy dentist like so many. There is a lot of money to be made doing surgery compared to slow palatal expansion.
I am currently undergoing slow palatal expansion and my face has changed for the better. No actual expansion has been done yet, but the teeth have been tipped into their correct position and that alone gave me a 3.5mm expansion in hte pre-molar region.
The expanding wire will be put in next week Wednesday and I'll try and post an update on it. The palate will remodel itself to a wider, rounder palate, my nasal cavity should widen up and breathing should become easier. My cheekbones are more prominent. I can feel all this remodeling everywhere in my face, but mostly noticable in my eye sockets. The bone has a little hole in the back for the eye nerves and they're being yanked around making me dizzy.

Primal Palate said...

Also, my sister has an extremely wide face with an extremely narrow arch.
She goes more after my mother who has a beautiful round face. But my sister did not get enough nutrition during my mothers pregnancy, resulting in an underdeveloped maxilla and mandible. My sister then needed braces when she was young, but those were done by a conventional dentist. He pulled 4 wisdom teeth and 4 premolars, put the tracks on and lined up the teeth without EVER correcting the bite itself.
My sister now has straight teeth, BUT you can't see beyong her 2nd incissor, she has a malocclusion type II with a set back mandible, weak chin, produced nose and extreme breathing problems, she snores and is easily exhausted during the day.
So you see a wide face doesn't always mean your palate is normal.

I have a narrow long face like my Dad, but ended up with ALL 32 adult teeth growing normally within my dental arch. I have minor crowding, but enough where my mandible could not rest in the proper position, giving me a malocclusion type II and a crossbite on the right side of my face. Within 8 weeks of treatment my lower jaw was able to move forward. Within 6 months my tongue moved up and is resting inside my upper dental arch. All my facial ticks have stopped. I used to move my lower jaw around looking for a place to rest, licking my dried up lips, holding my lower jaw in place with muscle strength because it has no place to be. That is all gone now.

My sister and I are only 4 years apart in age, yet I look 20 years younger than her. Both sides of her face are sagging and yanking her eyes down with it because she lacks the proper maxilla bone to hold the soft tissue in place.

When you have a sarpe done make sure you're getting a slow expansion on top of it...not just conventional braces to close the front gap. To get both you might have to be treated by 2 orthodontists to get it done right.

Primal Palate said...

And also,
you need to be on a diet that doesn't block mineral absorption.
Look into the Paleo, Primal Blueprint and WAPF diets. Try and take the proper nutrients (that probably lacked in your mother's diet during pregnancy) that promote bone remodeling and nutrient uptake. A,D,E and K2 are fatsoluble vitamins needed for proper bone growth, together with all other minerals and vitamins.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I have been reading this for a long time. I am wondering, maybe primal palate knows, if with new methods that can widen the dental arch, can you also expand the palate too because of bone remodelling? I didn't quite understand that. The thing is, my left side is less developed. That includes the dental arch, but also the palate and cheekbones. Sure, if the dental arch is expanded in my left side to match the right one, then it doesnt matter about the palate. But the cheekbones of my left side would still be less developed. Unless, of course, when you expand the arch it also expands the cheebones through bone remodelling. So....does it? Thanks. I would post pictures in a few days but I dont have the camera here right now. Christian.

Primal Palate said...

Hi Christian,

I just came from my Ortho appointment, and he says uneven dental arches can be made even with the right time and skill.
Today, the expanding wire has been put into my upper and lower brackets, which is about 4 months later than the norm. He says my bone is so dense it takes longer to build down/up because more bone has to be moved.
To your question, I have read medical statements and seen xrays of peoples facial bones and the palate does in fact remodel itself to a wider one.

It is noticable at the nasal cavity, which becomes wide and open, rather than narrow and long and the palate becomes stretched to reach the widened dental arch.
Stress levels are in the maxilla, lateral wall of the inferior nasal cavity, zygomatic and nasal bones with highest stress concentration at the pterygoid plates of the sphenoid bone in the region close to the cranial bone.
It can affect the ethmoid bone by the eye sockets. You will be able to feel pressure everywhere up to the frontal bone and temporal bone.
This is from medical studies done with slow palatal expansion.

My experience was this starting out:
The right side of my face is underdeveloped, giving me crowding, an astigmatism, pressure of bone on my eye socket only on the right side of my face. My cheekbone is also flatter on that side giving me a dark circle and puffy bag under my right eye. This right eye also sits lower on my face than my left eye, making eye glasses appear to sit crooked on my face. This is all just slightly and no person would notice any of this by just looking at me.
At the beginning of my treatment, the first 8 weeks, the right side of my face had fever in it. It was extremely hot and the skin was reddish. That right eyeball was also very hot and I was very dizzy. That eyeball was yanked all over the place and I thought I was getting an infection on that side of my face. What really happened was the bone remodelled itself faster than on the left side because the same pressure from the wire being applied to an underdeveloped face will actually put out more pressure than on the other side and bone had to catch up. I now seem to have a more even face, my eyeball doesn't seem to be lower than the left one anymore and I seem to have gained cheekbone height at the part where the zygomatic bone meets the sphenoid bone. It probably isn't 100% even and never will be but it's very hard to tell now. With that said, things will probably move a LOT now that I actually have an expanding wire in.
Now, the true bone remodeling of the face will start.
He is going after the most extreme expansion, from a narrow, crooked, crossbite infested malocclusion II to the perfect bite of a Tru-Arch.
I can't wait!

Will keep everyone updated.

Anonymous said...

Primal Palate - who is your ortho?

I have been doing a lot of research on this -- you guys should also look into the schwarz appliance. It's a removable expander like the homeoblock and there is an ortho who has used it successfully on adults. He says he accomplishes true palatal suture expansion, so you not only get the wider smile but also effects above the dental arch. Treatment time is also much faster than the homeoblock -- about 4 to 6 months. Exciting stuff! I will most likely be doing this treatment so I'll keep you guys updated.


Primal Palate said...

My Ortho is located in Idaho/Twin Falls. His name is Dr. Troy Williams. He has read the Weston A. Price Book and knows how important nutrition is to healthy bones, teeth and gums. Some of his staff members take Cod Liver Oil (the ones I've talked to). His praxis is called Braces R Us.

If you're looking to have this done find a 'facial orthodontist' and shop around. I was loaded with info over the internet before I started calling Orthos. Fact is, I didn't even know Orthos existed, I thought everyone was a dentist =P.
That's how naive I was.
Sure appreciate the internet now that I'm an adult. During my childhood, non of this was available and everybody just went to the nearest dentist only in case of a tooth ache. Times sure have changed.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ryan,
I'm posting from Vancouver BC and I've read through your blog on the homeoblock appliance. I just wanted to relay "my story" for interest sake, to others looking for case studies and info. I was 34 years old when I went to an orthodontist to correct a "tooth that stuck out and a slight overjet" Not knowing ANYTHING at the time, I agreed to the ortho recommending 4 bicuspid extractions and braces to retract and close the spaces. Well, obviously the result was disastrous. Not just physically (my appearance changed DRAMATICALLY) but I also developed a host of new symptoms, previously unexperienced (insomnia, anxiety, depression, infertility, ringing in my ears, changed eye prescription, heart palpitations, thyroid issues, weight gain, head fogginess, posture changes, stiffness in neck and shoulders).So three years after this initial treatment, I promptly found a dentist who was willing to re-open the spaces using a Schwarz expander (2-way) on my upper and lower arches. I also needed TAD's (temporary anchorage devices) to correct a newly tilted (to the left) upper palette and a newly created off centre mid line. After another 3 years, we were able to expand to create three openings (3 out of 4 ain't bad) in order to place implants. I look better and my face is wider and fuller although I lost so much bone in the process of extractions and retraction that I will never fully regain my former appearance. Most of my symptoms disappeared and my implants are slowly building new bone, filling out my face (I had to get bone grafts and tissue grafts but it's the chewing forces that rebuild lost bone in the newly created implant sites). I still have a slightly off centre mid line and a slightly tilted palette and my front teeth don't project enough to recapture the fullness of my previous face, but I have a wider palette, better breathing and an improved occlusion. Just thought I would pass this on. You may find that the homeoblock helps to expand your palette and fill out your face (a little bit) but without the missing teeth and bone, the result might not be dramatic. I would recommend that you look into either the ALF or a functional appliance (like the schwarz but do a 3-way, not just 2-way to increase horizontal facial volume) to re-open the spaces that were closed during your childhood. It's such a travesty that this is still being done today, with all the information available. It's great that you are sharing this information and your journey. Good luck! (By the way, raw milk yogurt is amazing for restoring intestinal flora and establishing excellent GI health).


Anonymous said...

Lisa, thank you for sharing your story! I am flying to CO to get the schwartz appliances. I've had several orthos tell me they can't put an expander on an adult but I think they need to get with the current research.

It sounds like both the homeoblock and schwartz appliances are good options, though I do agree the root problem is the missing teeth. Grrr extractions and headgear are so backward (literally). Smiles should be full and faces should grow FORWARD! Wish I could bang some of these orthos over the head with Weston Price's book haha.


Buzzy Kerbox said...

This is very handy information and exactly what I was looking for, also very nice to know age does not appear to be a great factor as someone who is thirty and in great need to fixing a badly formed arch. My great problem was asthma from the time I was born, created mouth breathing which still goes on today, thankfully the asthma has not been a problem for a long time, but the damage is left in my arch.

I have to say though I am surprised by your own complaints, your arch looks quite large in that comparison picture of you when you are young, especially compared to people who have 'real' narrow arch problems. I also think the comparisons to a lot of indigenous people are exaggerated, easy to find examples to compare but I think its quite generalized, especially about nose width. You could find endless examples of people with European ancestry with narrow noses and perfectly fine teeth and breathing, probably a lot of varying difference from different backgrounds I am sure.

Of course this does not take anything away from the fact about how seriously bad diets are today, but we do not have to be anal about it, your average kid, as long as their diet is balanced with good dental care its silly to be overly critical of diet and features. Just look at changes in things like size, height and life expectancy over the last 100 years.


Anonymous said...

I agree, that many europeans and middle eastern people have narrow nostrils and it doesn't mean the dental arches are narrow.
The pinched nostrils is the part where the nasal bones are, NOT the opening of the nose at the bottom (soft tissue). It is the nasal bone that needs to be wider in order to correct breathing and keep nostrils (soft tissue) open.

It is when the nasal bones of your nose are narrow that the soft tissue isn't supported enough to open everything up for easy breathing. Weston Price doesn't explain this at all and most people just look at the soft tissue nostrils.

Primal Palate said...

It's been 10 days since the first expanding wire has been put in and my sinus is draining like MAD.
Something is on the move!
Distance between first pre-molars gained 0.4mm in the last 10 days.

Total treatment time so far 10 months. Total expansion gained at 1st pre-molars 3.9mm...but 3.5mm was from tipping pre-molars into a straight position.
I don't feel a difference in breathing yet other than having an always clear sinus now. I don't think any of this has affected my nasal bones, yet, but will hopefully change over the next year or two during actual expansion.

~Holly said...

I've heard of a procedure that has to do with palate widening on kids between the ages of 7-9yrs. I've heard it has to be done before 9 years old. Is this the homeoblock or something different? Has anyone heard of this? Thanks!

Erin said...

I have a situation similar to Lisa's above, but I had my extractions as a child - 4 wisdom teeth and 4 other teeth (I know I'm missing laterals on top, so I have pointy teeth next to my front teeth, but I'm not sure what the names are of the two missing on the bottom.) Then I had braces for four years. I've had TMJ pain as long as I can remember. I also have astigmatism in my right eye and headaches.
I had a dental appt recently and was told that my front teeth (top and bottom) have shortened roots from my orthodontic treatment (root resorption.) Apparently this is a very common side effect of braces.
I wonder if I'm even a candidate for the Homeoblock, Myoresearch appliance of the ALF? My front teeth wiggle very slightly if I try to move them with my fingers. Sometimes they hurt because of my overbite and that my molars will only touch if my mandible slides back (which hurts my TMJ) but my front teeth crash into each other which can't be helping the situation.
Does anyone here have shortened roots from earlier orthodontic treatment? Have you gone ahead with one of these appliances and not had any trouble with teeth becoming more unstable or losing them?
I also wonder, if my palate (and mandible) expand - would I need implants to fill in the gaps? I don't want implants...

Secondly, I have an 11 yr old daughter who recently got braces (June 2011) after having upper & lower palate expanders a couple of years ago. I was tempted to have them removed after having them on for only 2 days once I found out that my roots had been damaged due to MY braces... I spoke with a couple of local dentists who use the ALF, among other appliances, but one of them wanted $500 just for a consult! The other only charged us $75, so we both went. He recommended we keep the braces on and get the T4B from Myoresearch - he's also a strong believer in WAP's research and believes firmly in nutrition. He does CST and muscle testing as well. We also have a CST who has worked on my daughter and infant in the past. Honestly, I've been toying with the idea of taking CST classes so I can work on my children often...

My daughter hasn't had any extractions, but at least one of her wisdom teeth has impacted roots so far. I REALLY want her to keep all of her teeth.

There's so much conflicting research out there. I feel like, for her, less will be more. I don't like the braces (the ortho wants her to wear a permanent retainer after they come off!!) but I wonder if she wears the T4B, maybe it'll turn out okay. Along with this, if I keep her diet optimal (we eat a Primal diet, with lots of sunshine, no sunblock, FCLO, raw pastured butter, etc) and regular CST - maybe it'll coax her body to do what it needs to do.
She's my oldest, and I gradually ate better and better with my children, so my other 3 have much broader faces/palates and straighter teeth. She's also the only mouth breather (which the T4B is said to correct.)

Any recommendations for the Philadelphia area?



Anonymous said...

Just wanted to update you guys on my expansion -- I am a 24 year old woman doing slow expansion with the schwartz appliances. I was warned by many orthos and surgeons that this would NOT work due to the suture being fused. Needless to say I was a little nervous to begin in the face of these firm opinions, but then again having SARPE would have been a much greater ordeal.

However, after 9 turns I am happy to report that I have definitely gotten a small gap between my two front teeth indicating skeletal expansion. I turn the upper and lower appliances every 3 days (1/4 mm each time). My smile is looking wider and teeth/gums seem just fine at this point. I have about 4-5 months of expansion left to go and then braces. So, as of this time, I am happy with how things are progessing :).


1 Year Expansion Update: said...

So here is my update after 1 year of Damon Braces:

Out of the last 12 months I only had 1.5 months in an actually expansion wire...the wires prior to this was to align, straighten, rotate and to set teeth into an arch, rather than having the roots sit wherever.
I am disappointed that it took 10.5 months to just 'set' teeth into an arch, when there was nothing wrong with my specific arch FORM to begin with.
After 1.5 months (6 weeks) of expansion I am sad to report NO expansion has been made.
The 'expansion' that was achieved during the first 10.5 months was just from setting teeth into their straight position, rather than tilted inwards.
My Ortho told me to help push with my tongue, pushing onto teeth as much as I can and also during swallowing, to help trigger expansion. NOTHING is moving.
Instead, my face looks longer, thinner but with more prominent cheekbones that really poke out on the side of my face. My forehead seems wider and rounder. My sinus has been draining like crazy and I seem to be able to breathe easier.
My bite is almost perfect, my lower jaw can be placed further forward, which is more comfortable, especially sleeping. My teeth don't fit together at all atm and I'm afraid that when I bite down I'll end up fracturing one of my teeth. The 'mountain tops' hit the other 'mountain tops', instead of biting down and resting them in the 'valleys'. Sorry don't know how to explain it.

My mother has a broad face with a wide dental arch and is by race a finnish Lapp. My Dad is of middle eastern descent with a long narrow face, high boney cheeks and his ears are set far back and high on his head. He naturally sports a narrow but long dental arch that fit all 32 teeth into a perfect ovoid arch.

I was hoping that with a Damon Expansion I could trigger some of my mothers genetics and expand my own arch. Instead, my Dads middle eastern genes got triggered and everything grew longer. I now look exactly like everyone from my Dad's family. I have tons of room in the back of my dental arch, I could probably fit another half-tooth behind my wisdom teeth.
No eye glasses fit behind my ears, they're set so far back that the arms have to rest on top of my ears rather than behind them...

Well, so much for getting what I paid for, I feel slightly ripped off. I hopefully will get a functional bite out of this (canine teeth are way too tight) and straight teeth.

Don't know what else to say other that I'm disappointed. Sure, things grew bigger but not into the direction I wanted it to go.
Ah well,...

Primal Palate

Anonymous said...


I've posted pictures on my blog about my 8 month Homeoblock update in case anyone is interested:


Anonymous said...

These pictures are better and also show some remineralization that's occurring now.


Ann said...

All I have to say is wow... Maybe the grass is always greener. I looked at the two pictures and read the article of not wanting to have a "narrow" face and smile and would Prefer to have the rounder face like the Swiss girl. Let me tell you, I would ENVY to have a narrow face and smile like that picture. I naturally have a round face, full cheekbones and jaw but when I smile, my teeth don't just show teeth (i.e. The "Julia Roberts" smile or your picture above). Although I had a palate expanded and braces as a kid and my teeth and bite are quite nice (thank you Dr. Rayburn :)) when I smile, there's still a gap between where my molars end and lips start if that makes sense. I absolutely HATE it and don't smile because of it. Maybe it's because the bottom of my face is fuller/ rounder but I feel like a chipmunk when I smile. It's actually impacted my mood and I come across as aloof and unfriendly and makes me depressed. I'm assuming nothing can be done fir this since I did have a palate expander and braces and my teeth fit together beautifully but maybe someone has a suggestion? I did just notice that when I do bite down I have to retract my tongue and I believe another poster said you should be able to comfortably have your tongue resting and teeth shut around it. Anyway, I guess I was just born with a round, wide face and small palate and although my smile is "perfect" it doesn't match my face structure. I'd much rather have to smile less and see teeth than smile and see teeth plus gaps at both sides of the mouth. :/

Anonymous said...

Ann the gaps are called 'buccal corridors' Their presence suggests that your face developed further after your childhood orthodontic treatment; and you may be able to get a wider smile with palatal expansion using an ALF appliance and DAMON braces

Ann said...

Wow, Thanks! I will look into that!

Anonymous said...

can it help with a gummy smile?

Angie said...

My husband got the Rapid Pallet Expansion. It is so painful for him. He says it is definitely a torture devise. He has trouble with the saliva going everywhere, speech, and getting sleep with all the pain. He has only had it on one week and it is unbearable. We are going to the dentist to talk about other options like surgery on Monday. I feel so bad that he has to go through so much pain. He is on 4 Motrin every 4 hours and at night a prescription for pain. I don't know if he is the norm or not. I hope your experience goes better.

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Anonymous said...

I just found your site doing a Google search on jaw expansions. I have a very narrow upper jaw and crooked teeth. Along with reversing that, I am considering a crown lengthening. Speaking of lengthening...this all sounds very lengthy and expensive, I know. I'm glad I came across your page - your post went beyond being just informative. I want to do as much research as possible before proceeding with any of it, because I'm cautious of possible side effects, and this has been quite enlightening. Thank you!

Maya said...

This is a very interesting thread and I'm glad to have found a place where people are discussing this in depth!

I too spent a few years in traditional ortho and have been unimpressed with the process and result. I have TMJ/tinnitus, a 4mm underbite, and slight asymmetry in my jaw leading to one side of my bite meeting on the edge of the teeth rather than locking properly. I turned down the option of orthognatic surgery since it would do little for my TMJ. Treatment with ALF would be a 4 year estimate and wouldn't get back most of the length of my mandible. I'm hoping for a quicker and better solution if at all, but most options seem to only talk about gaining width, when I need both. I really wish I'd just gone straight to DAMON braces or something, because I'd likely be done with all this by now, instead of having to pay another boatload of money and spending another few years in ortho. There're a lot of people I'd like to slap with a copy of Weston Price's book! lol.

I did see one practitioner who told me that the braces had pushed my jaw back a bit and surgery would have thus overcorrected the bite. He's recommending a device to train my jaw to shift forward a few millimetres. This is said to help TMJ, but would do little for asymmetry and bite correction. Has anyone encountered this train of thought before?

Lisa, If you're still reading this could you let me know who you saw in Vancouver?

Anonymous said...

Hi guys, this has been very helpful site for me since I am 30 years old and using palatal expander for 2 months now. I had braces 10 years ago but unfortunately my teeth has relapsed. I have crossbite and I wanted to make everything right this time so using the expander first. As i said its been two months and my two front teetht has seperated like 2 mm by now. My dentist says its really good, however after all research i have done i believe the dentist are not sure if the expander works for adults. Therefore I will try to write the results here. Everyone needs good examples in order to decide...best luck to you all. Cigdem from Turkey.

Corrie said...

Wow, this is GREAT information! Is there a list anywhere of dentists/orthodontist who work with the Homeoblock product?

Also, my problem is that my lower jaw is too narrow for all my teeth to fit in. The wisdom teeth have been giving me a lot of pain and of course the dentist wants to extract all 4 (even the 2 that are fine!). Thing is, when looking at the xray he remarked twice about the excellent condition of my teeth! So my teeth and jaw bone are in good shape and it's really all a structural problem. That makes me really hesitant to have him extract any healthy teeth from a healthy jaw. I'm worried it could start a whole cascade of health problems from trauma, cavitations, etc.

Can this method be used to widen the jaw enough to allow partially emerged wisdom teeth to fully emerge???

MotherGinger said...

I would love to hear any updates from PP or Anonymous or anyone else who has used Damon, DNA, ALF, Homeoblock, or BioBloc/Orthotropics.

Primal Palate, if your description of your father's people (on their native diets) is accurate, then you haven't been ripped off. You just didn't get the genes you wanted. If you're right, you got what you would have looked like if you had never been nutrient-deprived at conception. Hardly a ripoff. Remember, Price said that nutrient deprivation keeps children from looking like their parents - you have that now.

Primal Palate said...

I completely forgot about this site, until someone e-mailed me, asking me about WAPF.

So here is my 19 month update:

For those who haven't read this whole thread here is what was wrong wiht me: I had a malocclusion type II, with sinus problems such and blocked drainage and reoccuring sinus infections. The right side of my face was (is) underdeveloped. I have an astigmatism in my right eye, my eye was slightly cocked outward and the small bone around that right eyeball put pressure onto my eye, giving me piercing pain within it. I also had to hold my lower jaw back my whole life to make teeth fit, resulted in clenching over night, headaches in the morning from the night long clenching and eventually ended up with TMJ and Lock-jaw.

I remember how pissed I was at my 1 year Update. This is no longer the case...LOL.
There was a time where I had serious doubt if I've done the right thing. I had lost confidence in my Ortho for awhile because of the way things moved, fit together, 'collapsed' and clashed. Around my 1 year update I was unable to recommend this procedure to anyone, except my most hated enemies lol.

It's been 19 months and I couldn't be happier. Everything is still a bit uneven, but I can feel a functional bite coming along, and my back molars are filling in the gaps. No more black holes when I smile. I have a 12 tooth smile if I smile BIG enough :-)

There has been a minor 'problem' which I think I should mention.
Here is something I found out from my Ortho:
When tissue is underdeveloped, then blood vessels are underdeveloped, too. This means that if you're supposed to have 5000 blood vessels feeding one side of the face (just an example), not only does someone like me have an underdeveloped bone structure, but blood vessels and nerves are lacking, too. This explains why I only have 1 large optic nerve in my right eye, while my left eye has 3.
So while blood supply is high on my left side during treatment, it could only be half as effective on my right. Also, bone density will slow things down by a lot. The denser the bone, the more material has to be moved, slowing down progress.

So both things combined might be the reason why things didn't go as quickly for me as it does for others. People are usually done around 18 months of treatment doing DAMON. I still need to replace a bad fitting cap that seems to irritate my gums, or it might be that I'm allergic to the metal under the cap, who knows, but I'll get to that once I've been wearing a retainer for a year and bone / roots are set in their new position.
My Ortho said my eyeball and bone pain most likely won't be fixed since bone that far away from braces won't move, but he was wrong. I have not had any eyepain, I am also not wearing my glasses, EVER, to fix my astigmatism. My eye stays focused on a target. I mean heck, my forehead has rounded out and grew bigger, too!
My lower jaw seems more even (one side was bigger than the other), I can relax my face muscles and not focus on holding my lower jaw closed.
Well, I keep ranting on, if anyone has more questions about my insane bone building 'diet' or how things are going with Damon, feel free to E-mail me at MOOPRULES@hotmail.com .

I will also send Ryan a photo of the end product when done, which is still some time away.

Also, the muscles in my face pull the smile into a different one, upwards, more youthful, getting rid of the sagging lower cheek skin around the mouth. I think Damon site has a photo of a short haired older lady showing that exact thing.

Anyways, thanks for reading and good luck ya'll

Primal Palate

Cheryl Z said...

Wow am I glad I stumbled across your blog. Found it while looking up about this subject.

I'm an adult whose going through palate expansion to stop horrible TMJ (8 years of pain) and I'm feeling a lot of what people say here. Especially the puffiness and pressure around the eyes, wondering if I'll ever look refreshed again!

However, I am people telling me I look a lot better, and that my face is going back to "normal" although I don't think I'll ever look like I did before TMJ. : (. It's a hard process to be sure, constant pain.

But if you've been in pain for 8 years, a couple more years of pain isn't going to hurt if it ends up helping! : )

Good luck to you! I enjoyed reading this post, made me feel so much better!

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Leslie Wood said...

Wow, it's been a while since someone posted. I just got the palatal expander on top, AND full set of braces, AND buildups on the back of the front teeth. I am in quite a bit of discomfort...but EATING. omg. I can't eat anything. The buildups on the top teeth leave my back teeth about 3/8 of an inch apart. I can't chew soft meat, I can't chew melon, I can't chew anything. What do I do about my food? So far, it's been organic yogurt / veggie / fruit smoothies with coconut milk, kefir, and whey powder...the protein is the killer. I can't live on dairy for however long it takes, can I?
I had orthodontics as a kid/teen, and was born without 4 biscupids. So they closed up all the gaps, pulling my teeth inwards. I am now 54 and have been saddled with permanently contracted traps, occipitals, and headaches for 15 years now. Before that it was only intermittent. So I had to do something. The other big issue is sleeping. I've had 5 hours of sleep in 48 hours, and now have sinus infection which has gone to my lungs. Aaarrggghhhhh. Any advice, tips, suggestions would be appreciated!

Anonymous said...

What do I do about my food?

- bone broths
- organ meat pates
- tomato juice liver tonics
- at least six egg yolks a day mixed into your smoothies, or fresh OJ and/or even homemade carrot juice
- caviar or any affordable fish roe
- fresh raw coconut water, as much as can drink in a day
- supplement A, D, and K2. Best way through fermented CLO and MK-7 supps.

with a Vita-Mix you can make nearly any food "liquid"

I can't live on dairy for however long it takes, can I?

Why not? Unless you are one of those folks that must have meat, this shouldn't be an issue.

The other big issue is sleeping. I've had 5 hours of sleep in 48 hours, and now have sinus infection which has gone to my lungs.

- echinacea plus (infection)
- nerve tonic (sleeping)

best from herbdoc.com

Just a quickie workup off the top of my head.

Sarabeth Matilsky said...

Hi All,

This is a fascinating thread, and I'd love to hear updates (links to other blogs?) on how these palate widening techniques are working. I'm thirty-three and would LOVE love love some relief from constant jaw pain/tension/TMJ that I've had since I was a child. I have all my teeth, but my bite is very much _wrong._ My molars do not meet, and my upper front teeth curve down over my lower ones...

Oh to go back in time and feed my grandparents and parents some good food!

Has anyone had good long-term experiences with doctors/dentists in NY state (preferably upstate)?


Anonymous said...

Hi Lisa (from Vancouver),
I have similar case such as yours. If you are still reading this blog, can you send your contacts for schwarz appliance. Thanks,

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Anonymous said...

I'm just now looking into fixing what my orthodontist "messed up" recently. I have malocclusion & a recessed chin/lower jaw, a narrow palate, and had a lot of crowding. I'm 31 and currently still have my braces on from my ortho treatment. The ortho used DAMON braces and did some palatal expansion but then pulled 4 of my bicuspids and started to pull the teeth back to match my recessed lower jaw...now I am extremely unhappy with the narrow, sucked in, and long look of my face. It's like he started off with good ideas and then veered off towards the crappy conventional path! And now I'm left dealing with the consequences. Great. I recently found someone else's blog posting talking about an amazing ortho near Oxnard, CA named Dr. Hang. His practice is called Face Focused orthodontics and he specializes in using the biobloc system for expansion. Has anyone heard of him or of the biobloc? Just wondering if it's similar to the homeoblock and equally as effective or not? I want to make sure I'm making the right decision so this time things are done correctly. If anyone has any info on this I would greatly appreciate it!!

Primal Palate said...

I haven't updated any information lately because right around the time when the braces were supposed to come off my Ortho tweaked the wire and things got messed up ...
I am back on track now and will be done end of this summer (hopefully).

I will post a complete update then.

Hope everyone else is having good luck with the choices they've made.
Til then

Primal Palate

grapes said...

These posts are all very interesting, thanks. And I'm eager to hear updates, Primal Palate.

dako7a said...

Hi everyone, I just spend the evening reading old posts. I'm 33 and have 24 teeth, tmj ,neck pain blah blah. I've had braces twice, which have left my enamel pretty scarred up...Anyway, here's my take on some of the tech above:

1. Homeoblock and DNA appliance should be fairly similar. I emailed Singh the creator and he told me he co-created it (maybe with Belfor)

2. Palate expansion - seems to only work for some people (bone physiology?), others just get teeth tipping (which is useful too)

3. BE CAREFUL people! This is big business, which is why we ended up like this. I actually travelled 5 hours by bus to get an ALF consultation. It was informative, but not worth $800 (lots of measurements). Think about what you're will to do and pay...

I guess everyone has different ways of coping with the damage done. I don't know, but one thing that comforts me is knowing this: most of us are 20-40...we'll be worm food in 50 years. I know it sounds sad, but sometimes it helps.

Danielle Chantal said...


I'm amazed to find out that so many others have suffered from the onslaught of chronic pain that I thought belonged to me alone. I have unique news and experiences to share: before entering into these maxillary expansion and growth therapies (which I whole-heartedly believe in!), it's ESSENTIAL TO STABILIZE THE MUSCLES OF THE JAW HEAD AND NECK AND MAKE SURE THAT YOUR TONGUE and ORAL MUSCLES ARE FUNCTIONING CORRECTLY. Why? Because muscles whose neurons are firing incorrectly and functioning improperly can prove very hostile to attempted maxillary movement (particularly adults). How do I know? Personal experience!

As a child I had headgear and multiple phases of braces. I have suffered from acute back, neck, head and jaw pain, all related to poor ortho. I've tried many alternative therapies including cranio-sacral, osteopathic, chiropractic etc. Two years ago I found a dentist who specialized therapies like those listed in this thread. While I experienced some relief in the beginning, my muscles and joints felt like they were going into a tail-spin shortly after. I can relate to the woman who says her husband was in excruciating pain when he wore his appliance. I finally had to stop treatment because of the pain. I'd feel better for periods of time but nothing ever stabilized.

In steps myofunctional therapy.

I have tried every therapy, stretch, anti-inflammatory diet, lifestyle change and orthodontic and body-work treatment known to
man to alleviate my symptoms. The one thing that has given me lasting relief and a foundation on which to sustainably pursue one of the treatments listed in this thread is MYOFUNCTIONAL THERAPY. The great news is that it involves simple exercises that ANYONE can do!

Myofunctional therapists focus on the development and function of the lips, face, neck, jaw and tongue muscles. Myofunctional therapy exercises are simple and easy, designed for 6 year olds. They stabilize the jaw, and wake up and recalibrate the muscles of the head, neck, and upper back. Before I began therapy, I had electrodes hooked up to these muscles and all of my motor neurons were firing incorrectly--it's like my mouth, head and neck were in a chronic state of shock and confusion. In addition, I have a tongue thrust (meaning my tongue pushes forward when I swallow, a common symptom of TMJ patients) and my tongue was resting incorrectly in my mouth. The tongue should be pressed to the roof of the mouth on the hard pallet. This naturally balances the maxilla--it's the way our bodies were created to function. That's why these maxillary expansion programs were excruciating ineffective and unsustainable for me--my bones were being pushed and pulled in directions that my traumatized muscles could not tolerate.In addition to that, I was a thumb sucker as a little girl. This did a whole other number to my mouth development.

I have experienced more pain relief from this treatment than anything else!I used to have to see the chiropractor on a weekly basis and it's no longer the case! This treatment is putting my body in a position where I can receive and complete future ortho trearment successfully. Not only that, but my face is actually changing shape and I don't have any ortho in my mouth. It's amazing! Even after horrible ortho has screwed things up, the face has a natural tendency to move forward and out when the muscles are stabilized. Are any of you Dr. Mercola fans? Look up his interview with Joy Moeller on youtube. She's one of the top myofunctional therapists in the country. My life has been so impacted and transformed that I wanted to study myofunctional therapy and become a therapist!

Blessings to all of you on the journey towards health--have grace with your body and look forward with hope instead of behind with regret. May you find healing today.

Alma Mott blog site said...

I just want to give credits to technological advancement because its now possible to fix parts of our body that needs treatment. Thanks for giving hope to the rest of the people out there that still needs help.

Anonymous said...

I currently have braces on and have for 3 years now! Awful experience in which I had 4 teeth extracted to make more room in my narrow mouth that collapsed as an adult when I stopped wearing my retainer faithfully as an adult. My ortho has ruined my mouth to the point now that the outer root of some of my molars are sticking out of my upper jaw bone, and my bite is still off...ugh! I hate how much more narrow my face looks from removing teeth; almost sunken in! I had an expander as a teenager with my first round of braces. My ortho told me it was impossible to expand as an adult- which didn't make sense to me. If my bone was forged, then why would my mouth have collapsed?! I also had the DAMON bracket as previously mentioned by a reader. So interesting to find out I am not the only person this happened to! Our cases sound almost exact! Thank you for sharing your information about widening & also mentioning myofunctional therapy. I will def look into treatments! Best o luck to you in yours

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you still see comments here, but if anyone knows of UK-based dentists open to this kind of thing can they reply? Cheers!

Anonymous said...

I know this is a long time ago but I was wondering if you had bands on your braces to pull your top jaw back? I also had an expander then fixed and now have a nose bump so I'm wondering if face pulling would help to move it back. I've since relaped and now have a homeoblock

Primal Palate said...

So...I finally had my braces removed.
How does it look you ask? Well, it looks awesome.
BUT...my Ortho left me with high points, the teeth don't really fit like a glove because I have too many 'bumps in the road' and he says when I come back in 4 weeks he will reevaluate the bite and make minor filings on the high points to get rid of the annoying feel.

So, meanwhile my jaw is looking for the perfect fit because of the high points and bumps...hmm.
After 3 years and 4 months I am sick of this. I just want to live my life and not have to deal with this crap 24/7 of it.
I feel like he left my teeth too far in the front, toward my lips...but husband says I'm insane, they look outstanding.
He doesn't understand I'm not after looks, I'm after a harmonious bite, the zen bite we're supposed to have to heal more efficiently and be at inner peace.

My journey isn't over yet, we will see what happens in 4 weeks.

I'll keep you all posted.
Primal Palate

Primal Palate said...

So I decided to give my normal dentist (who does cosmetic dentistry the holistic way) a call to get a 2nd opinion on the problem I've been having since getting almost literally kicked out of my Orthos office.

My regular dentist made me a Hawley retainer so the front teeth can adjust to this weird bite problem I've been having.
My Damon Ortho literally got sick of my complaints, he says he's chasing a tail and just one day decided to take all the crap off, made me a cheapo plastic retainer which is made from toxic material such as PVC.

My bite would be so awesome would he not have left my front teeth so far in the front. I can't slide my lower jaw forward too much because they slam really hard into the back side of my upper incissors.

Hopefully with this new Hawley retainer that my regular dentist made me I can have minor adjustments made to the front to actually finish where my Ortho left off.
I am truly disappointed about how my Ortho let me go.

So worried...

Primal Palate

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Anonymous said...

This is probably a bit off-topic for many of you. Still, I can't find an answer anywhere yet. I've got emails out to three places but have yet to hear back from any of them.

My almost 18-year-old son is blessed to have straight teeth and no cavities. He had a little one once in a baby tooth that fell out. Now his wisdom teeth are coming in and the bottom two have done okay. His top right one has not started coming in but the top left one has -- but it's at about a 60% angle toward his left cheek. Only the chewing surface is out and apparently that's the way it'll stay.

Of course the dentist is expecting that we will someday have these teeth out. They're in perfectly good shape. I suppose if the top doesn't connect with the bottom and it's hard to brush -- that's what they're thinking about.

People talk about making room for impacted wisdom teeth but I can't find anything to straighten them once they've come in. Have any of you come across anything like this? There's a lot of regret about having wisdom teeth out (I did, too) but what can you do in a case like this? I have a hard time believing that someone hasn't come up with a solution.

Like I said, I DID have my wisdom teeth out. I also had a congenitally missing tooth next to my top middle teeth on the left and a twisted smaller tooth on the other side which, of course, they pulled -- good root and all -- without capping. (I've had a bridgework that connects to the backs of the teeth on either side since.) I had three years of braces from 15-18 and then another 1-1/2 years on the top teeth before I got married in my late '20's. I don't think it was helpful and I feel the inside of my mouth is very small -- barely enough room for my tongue.

Anyway -- my focus now is on my son and preserving what good he has by not succumbing to conventional wisdom again. Any helpful ideas would be most welcome.

Thanks! Flo

Anonymous said...

I think I need a palatal expander. My palate is way narrower than it should be, and I have a whole bunch of anecdotal evidence that can support that this needs to be corrected. I never have space for my tongue, speech is difficult, bad breath is a constant issue, I run out of breath when speaking, etc.
I'm going to have to give this a try!

Anonymous said...

Does palatal expansion affect the lower jaw (mandible)? My left side of the mandible is shorter than the right side. I had palatal expansion for a crossbite as a teenager but it did not fix the asymmetry of my lower jaw. I'm wondering now if the orthodontist did not do it correctly. Has anyone seen improvement in their LOWER jaw by expanding the upper?

Anonymous said...

I know this is an old thread, but I'd love to hear from some of the people who were doing ALF or other palate expansion to see what the results have been. I am considering doing ALF OR working with Dr. Hang to do palate expansion, then jaw surgery with braces to reverse retraction/extraction orthodontics. I REALLY don't want to do the surgery, but was so impressed by the before and afters Dr. Hang showed me. If something similar could be achieved with ALF or other appliances, I'd love to know. Both of my jaws are too far back, so I'd need expansion forward and side to side. Thanks!!

Omar Lalani said...

Hi Everyone,

In the late 80's and early 90's I had retractive ortho (cervical headgear) and fixed width retainers before growth was complete. It wrecked havoc on me and I'm finally recovering, using a CPAP at night and a splint myofunctional appliance.

I've started an organization to raise awareness around the damage that orthodontic work can do, and to also ban retraction, as it reduces the space of the airway and contributes, and in many cases, causes obstructive sleep apnea.

I'm looking for patient stories. I have a few so far, and need more. I also need more practitioner interviews.

The site is www.righttogrow.org.

Most importantly, I need leaders. People can use the material on the website and present to parent groups, lawmakers and the media in their local area.

Write to me if this cause interests you.

My email address is on the website, under patient stories. My story is the first one up and my email address is at the bottom.


vietkid09 said...

I can confirm that palate expansion works even on adult. I have been using schwart appliance for my narrowed teeth. I had 4 teeth extracted long ago too when I was 17. Now 21,I have gaps between my teeth now and I can breathe alot better now. My smile improved, I will keep expanding til I restore all the space back. Bones are not permanent, your bones changes everyday just like your hair you just dont notice it. My head shape also changes.

source: claimingpower.com

Anonymous said...

It seems to me like the 2 photos of the lady with the red nose (supposedly before and after) are actually taken on the same day. Make up / skin coloration / everything is the same in the two shots.

Anonymous said...

The first photo is propaganda. The girl on theft is photographed at from an angle and her chin is "whited out" like they intentional shined an extra light on her eliminate any shadows and definition. I think Weston A. Price isn't paying enough attention, or he is is disreputable source.

Anonymous said...

The girl on theft is even wearing a turleneck sweater! verses the other girl wearing a sleek black jacket with angular shoulder pads! It's propaganda I tell you.

Anonymous said...

This guys a fraud, everyone's a liar. Protect yourselves from them don't give them money or attention. You've been told.

deanna0710 said...

The Homeoblock appliance does NOT work for everyone. I consider it a total waste of time and money. I received my homeoblock through a dentist. I finally went to a reputable dentist who promptly threw the appliance in the trashcan. I think he was correct. It is a waste of time and money.

MakingLifeBetter said...

Thank you for your blog! I was looking at a website regarding palatal expansion. WWW.DNAAPPLIANCE.COM and the youtube video, DNA Appliance Made Simple. Ken Yielding is the vice president, and I spoke to him, and it may also be a great way to expand the palate. I'm looking into it for myself for severe TMJ Disorder and Apnea. I just got out of braces, and they severely messed me up, leaving no room for my tongue by pushing the maxilla posterior and narrowing it. Also, moved my bottom teeth in the wrong direction, gave me root absorption and gum recession. The previous dentist pulled 4 teeth, and this dentist pushed everything posterior, resulting in a worse position. I worked with the orthodontist for 6years 4months, finally fired him even though he was wanting more time, possibly 3 more years in braces. I know right, crazy! Teeth are straight though, LOL! Irony.