Sunday, February 27, 2011

Palate Expansion Update, 2/27/11: Finally Got It!

The Homeoblock appliance with case and advancement tool.
On my way home from Arizona, I swung by Dr. Darlington's office for an appointment to fit my Homeoblock and take it home with me.  Dr. Darlington, as usual, was very kind and accommodating to my needs as a patient living six hours away, scheduling the appointment for when it was most convenient for me.  The Homeoblock fitting and insertion procedure took about a half-hour due to the upper palate device not fitting very well.  It was a back-and-forth scenario with Dr. Darlington inserting the appliance and then me giving him feedback on how it felt.  There was some discomfort around my gums, and he adjusted the Homeoblock with small pliers to fix it (similar to what is seen in this training video by Dr. Belfor).  I was pretty surprised how easy and painless it all was.  I was also relieved to find out that I would only be wearing the appliance at night, rather than all day and night for a few months as I initially thought.

The upper Homeoblock fit well enough, although I still felt that it wasn't optimal.  Dr. Darlington said I could adjust the wiring as I needed to when I got home with my fingers, so I wasn't too worried about it and decided to get back on the road.  The Homeoblock was given to me in a retainer-like case with an adjustment tool to advance the appliance a quarter turn each week.  It's a pretty slick system.

At home, I made sure to take some "before" pictures to compare later down the line when I finally look like the Neanderthal that I've always wanted to.  Kidding.  But it will be interesting to see what changes occur, however subtle.  Here's some of my mug shots to show you all what I'm working with.  Please understand that I sacrificed a great beard so that my facial structure can be seen for what it really is -- all in the name of science.  First face pictures:

Note the yellow line above that I drew on my face to illustrate its lack of symmetry.  The left side appears to droop down, particularly noticeable by observing the eyes and lips.  In the picture on the right, you'll notice that while smiling there is a definite natural face lift going on for me, but there is still marked asymmetry around the nose. Now let's take a look at my glorious upper and lower palate as they are now.

On the far left, you can see how my teeth come together off centered.  My lower palate (center) is pretty narrow and my front teeth are slightly overlapping due to years of shifting (I got my braces off at age 13).  On the right is my upper palate and a similar process is underway with one tooth in particular poking out a bit.  Of course, also note that neither palate has the wisdom teeth courtesy of my high school orthodontist.

After analyzing my facial features and chompers, I was excited to try the much-anticipated Homeoblock out that night.  I inserted it right before bed, slept through the night fine (besides a little excessive drooling), and woke up to fairly sore teeth.  Things were definitely moving!  My jaw felt like it had a bit of a workout.  I could still eat solid foods and the soreness went away after a few hours in the day.  The next night, I decided to try to adjust the upper Homeoblock to get it to fit better.  I toyed around with it a bit much, apparently, as one of the wires snapped!  "Well, it was an interesting $1700 experiment while it lasted," I thought to myself.  So I wore only the bottom palate that night.  I called Dr. Darlington the following day to inform him of what had happened.  He said to just send it to him and he can get it fixed, and since it still seemed to not fit well, he would replace the broken wire with a "ball joint" to see if that helped.  If it didn't we could just have a new upper palate Homeoblock made from a freshly formed cast of my mouth.  Great!  I really feel supported by Dr. Darlington, and I'm grateful that this is all covered under the initial cost that I paid.

So I should get my upper Homeoblock back next week sometime.  Until then, the doc said that it would be fine to wear my lower palate appliance.  I will update everyone once I pass the two or three week mark with that.  Also, I would like to compare the Homeoblock with Damon Braces at some point.  I am awaiting Dr. Belfor's thoughts on this subject when he returns from traveling.

One more thing.  Those of you interested in the subject of adult facial enhancement should drop by Nourishing Nancy's website to keep up with her updates on the Damon Braces system.  She has already seen very significant results!


trix said...

I look forward to following your progress, Ryan.

undertow said...

Hey Ryan, good luck with this! I it will be interesting to see how this progresses over the next year.

My next dental appt is coming in March, going to talk about options as the Homeo is not available in this area yet...

Nourishing Nancy said...

Best of luck, Ryan! It's a long journey but I bet you'll be glad you did it. My progress is slow but sure; we'll keep tabs on each other! Dental buddies : )

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Thanks for the support everyone! I'll keep you all updated in the upcoming months.

Catherine said...

I have similiar occlusion problems to yours and I am waiting for your opinions concerning Homeoblock appliance and your progress. I'm from Europe and this is not popular here yet, but if it works I will find the way to do it :) good luck

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Thanks, Catherine! I'll have an update soon.

Anonymous said...

Ryan, where can I find your e-mail? I would like to write you a message, I am reading your blog and I see that we have a lot more in common than just bite problems :D we can help each other (to expand our knowledge), I see that you are seeker of truth too ;) I like such seekers ;) If you want to, mail me, take care

Anonymous said...

Very awesome Ryan!

You finally did it! Remember the teeth and jaw bones are supposed to be extremely sore starting out.
Looking forward to following your progress.

I am at the 6 months mark and absolutely nothing fits lower jaw decided to expand quicker than my upper so now my front teeth (both upper and lower) are in some kind of c-chain rubber thingy, which I totally hate, because I think it is hindering progress.

I should be patient and take it slow...but how can I with all this excitement! Gah...

I wish you the best of luck and keep us all updated!

Iris from Idaho

Ed McGoldrick said...

I appreciate your sacrifice, Ryan. Shaving a well maintained beard is such a heart breaking decision. LOL. Anyway I can't wait to see some improvements for your facial symmetry. If all people have patience, then no one would be addicted to surgery.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ryan,

I am anxious to get an update on your progress with the Homeoblock appliances; especially the lower one.

I have been under orthodontic treatment for two and a half years to address an overjet due to an underdeveloped lower jaw. I first wore an appliance to expand my upper arch. Then my lower jaw was pulled forward and held in place in an attempt to remodel the joint. Despite my excellent "compliance", this method did not work. I am now back to square one and facing the very undesirable option of surgery.

I have asked my orthodontist whether it is possible to expand the lower arch using an appliance similar to the one used to expand my upper arch. She explained that the upper arch is expanded by separating the sutures along the midline. Since the lower jaw is solid bone, similar expansion is not possible. Any information I can find on the web seems to support her explanation. Even the Homeoblock website focuses on the upper appliance, with very little mention of the lower one.

I hope that you are seeing more encouraging results.


Suvetar said...


when other methods didn't work to make the lower jaw come forward, what was done?
Seeing as you want an expansion from damon braces let's me know that an expansion has never been done, is that right?

My lower jaw was also too far back and I had a weak chin. The bite has a lot to do with the correction of the lower jaw and how its aligned with the maxilla.
When my maxilla was expanded, the lower jaw was able to slide forward because now the lower canine teeth could fit inside and in front of the upper canine teeth. My jaw was so far back (due to malocclusion) that my lower canine teeth were actually behind the upper canine teeth and that is wrong. They're supposed to be in front. Just give it time. I had the perfect bite within 4 months and then my bite changed again because my tongue moved up and bite changed yet again. Atm, I can't even close my feels like someone smashed my mouth with a hammer, I had brackets moved today.

Just give it time...I am sure that lower jaw will eventually come forward all by itself when the front 6 teeth (12 total) are all pretty much parallel to each other and you'll have a nice broad front.

Suvetar said...

To Nancy:

never mind, I just read your post again and you did mention an expansion was tried. But was the bite corrected?

I am, however, not seeing that your upper arch was looks extremely narrow in the photos.

Primal Palate said...

I am so tired of people saying adults can't have the dental arch widened.
Up until a few years ago it was thought that bone is solid and once you turn 18 you're done!

This is a big fat lie!
You can reshape, widen your dental arch at ANY age.
New medical research now shows that when certain!!! pressure is applied, bone starts to move, not the teeth. If the pressure isn't enough, teeth move instead.
I've gained 4mm width from pre-molar to pre-molar and haven't even started the true expansion yet. I'm still at the stage of aligning, rotating and tipping teeth. If bone didn't remodel itself and a coouple teeth are being tipped to a straight position, wouldn't those end up outside the bone if tipped 2mm each? But they're not, they're in solid bone, meaning the bone remodelled with it and grew 2mm on each side wider.

Folks, don't let people scare you about this non sense of adults can't achieve wider dental arches. Of course, if you genetically have an oval face you won't grow a round one. But your cheekbones will be more prominent, bridge of the nose will widen, your sinus will drain...even an expansion of 1mm makes a HUGE difference inside the nose. Bone remodeling, healing and growing new bone is possible at any age...all you non-believers need to find a capable orthodontist and stop going to these quackies that obviously haven't attended an educational dental seminar in decades.

Anonymous said...

Palate expansion is important but you can also try face-pulling which means pulling maxilla forward, it is also possible at any age and can give incremental changes to your overall look and health!

Thumper said...

That is so awesome that you started homeoblock treatment! How much do you think it's possible to expand with the homeoblock?

I'm looking at a similar treatment - ALF. I guy I talked to was going to expand 5.5 mm (intercanine). But some people need more expansion, like 9 mm. Is that possible in adults you think?

I come from Sweden and people are totally clueless here so I set up this website about new orthodontic methods. A lot of people have surgery here to open the palate and I'm thinking it's so sad, especially because of the risks involved (lip numbness for example).

Great job with this blog, I have been a follower for a couple of months now.

Bianka said...

Hi there Ryan! How are you going with the Homeoblock? Any noticeable changes yet? I've got an appointment with my dentist in a few weeks - finally going through with it! Very nervous :)

My Mother failed me said...

People seem to be confused about dental arch widening and jaw widening.
Most dentists are also confused. The jaw itself can't be widened...but only the part of the bone where the teeth sit in.
So widening of the entire face (dramatically) can only be achieved when the sutures aren't fused yet...during childhood. That's when you can turn a long narrow face into a round one.

From what I've researched the surgery in adults has a high relapse rate.
I've also been told that there's nerve damage afterwards and floating bone fragments...yikes.

Safest way to fix your narrow arch and bad bite is through slow bone is suggested here. The relapse rate is low if the retainer is worn religiously afterwards.
As for me, I've missed the nutrition train 30 years ago. I've decided to go with Damon since I tend to give up on things easily and would just take the Homeoblock out if pain becomes too severe...which it was the first 5 days getting Damon, but thankfully couldn't do anything about it!
So us adults who missed out on good nutrition while our mothers were pregnant with us and the first 10 years of our lives just have to kind of accept our 'deformed' underdeveloped, lack of ancestral structure face...BUT we can fix our bite, remodel our arch so we can breathe better, have slightly better facial symmetry, get rid of neck and shoulder pain due to a bad bite and tension in the jaw, etc...

Good Luck everyone! It's never too late.

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


I don't know what the maximum expansion is for the Homeoblock. Dr. Belfor says that it depends on each person's genetic potential. I would imagine there will come a time when it is no longer possible to expand my palate.


Things are going well. Nothing major to report -- just some light shifting in my teeth. It will take several months before I notice anything appreciable. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Hey Ryan
Just a quick line to enquire about the progress of your
homeoblock treatment. You seem to have gone off the radar on this one after much initial enthusiasm. Is this a cause for concern?I for one am seriously considering consulting Dr B for lack of facial structure, namely narrow lower jaw and flat cheek bones
Best wishes

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

I'm still using the Homeoblock nightly and noticing some slight shifting of my teeth. I'm realizing it's going to be a while before I can post pictures of significant progress because everything happens slowly with this procedure -- it's intermittent forces at work, as opposed to direct forces like Damon braces.

No cause for concern. I've just stepped away from blogging for a while to focus on other things. I'm not a very consistent blogger, unfortunately! I still believe in the Homeoblock as a great treatment for narrow palates and airways, particularly because it does work slowly and will maybe have longer-standing results than other methods.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if it really works faster when someone is doing NCR regularly, like Kevin from Orgone Energy Products...

Anonymous said...

For all the info and excitement on the homoeoblock, I've yet to see one credible case independent of Dr Belfor's site, which support the extraordinary claims made of the device. I know Kevin Courtois's feedback seems pretty unrealistic. Anyone who's read his blog can realise my reservations. I fear his words are fiction with no concrete evidence. Alot of us here, are desperate to attain better facial structure and perhaps viewing the homeoblock as some holy grail this is naive. I commend Ryan for being the first credible independent guinea pig so to speak, who's progress we can follow and hence come to our own conclusions on the homeoblocks merits....

Bianka said...

Hi Alessi, I've located a before and after photo online which appears to be independent of Dr Belfor's website, which personally I think shows some great results:

After 9 months of treatment, her smile definitely appears wider, her upper lip looks larger and her smile is much more attractive. Like Ryan, when I get this in a few more weeks time, I will definitely be blogging my process, so stay tuned :)

Anonymous said...

I checked out that link, and it appears that the girl in the photo decided to wear a different color lip stick. The lip therefor isn't any thicker or bigger.
The teeth look like they're in the exact same position. The pic on the right is a slightly bigger photograph making the smile appear bigger. Whole chin visible in photo on left, partially only in photo on the right.

I think the Homeoblock is putting out too little forces to make a dramatic change. It would take several years to accomplish what other devices do within 1 year.
Plus having that obstruction on the roof of your mouth will prevent you from properly placing the tongue in the upper arch to help use it as a natural expansion devise (the tongue) as mother nature intended.

The Homeoblock is just appealing to adults because many of us don't want to be caught with braces and fear everything else that's 'permanent' and we don't have any control over, like cemented RPE expanders.

Anonymous said...

Am afraid I have to agree with the nameless comment left above. I don't see any significant difference in the two pictures.If there was surely better, less condensed pictures would be presented. As for Dr Belfor's site, how many of those after pictures are due to definite shifts in bone matter (namely more visible jaw line and prominent cheek bones), rather then being attributable to fillers!!! Unless people present there case and say I had the homoeoblock and had remarkable results aesthetically, its hard to be convinced. Again Kevin Courtois is not a credible source. Read the so called scientific claims made for the various products and i rest my case... Sorry people, I don't mean to dampen the mood, but the only independent documented cases relating to the homoeblock are people who have just had it fitted or are about to consult a dentist.
Still theres got to be something out there!! Alas those with the secret formulae are not generous enough to share.....What you say??
Keep it Real!

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...

Just wanted to chime in here and say that I'm in agreement with you all that there isn't much of a noticeable difference in the woman's facial structure. That being said, the Homeoblock isn't meant to produce profound changes in 9 months -- it's a longer, slower process. I have already noticed definite straightening of my lower palate teeth. As for airway opening and jaw and cheekbone enhancement, these changes are tricky to quantify. Dr. Belfor does it with computer imaging.

I can't say with absolute certainty that the Homeoblock does what it claims, but the documentation that Dr. Belfor has created is very convincing, and I have no reason to believe that he is botching the data. I get his newsletters, and I am constantly impressed by his scientific rigor and clearly stated case studies. For those who choose to discredit him, I'd advise you to slow down and look further into his research. It's absolutely fascinating, and he is passionate about what he does!

Anonymous said...

So why is this site created? They are not selling anything, it is about the face-pullinh technique

Suvetar said...

Hi everyone,

I currently have the Damon System on my teeth since End of Sept 2010 and will send Ryan all the before and after pics when I'm closer to the 1 year mark.

I've had significant change within my mouth and sinus cavity, minor changes to bone on frontal sinus, zygomatic and sphenoid bone. I am not sure how I can prove this with xrays or pictures since it's a minuscule change. I don't know if those 1-2mm changes would be visible on xrays, especially since xrays are always taken from 1 side only.
I've had the bone outside of my right eye putting pressure onto my right eyeball my entire life giving me sharp pain within that bone and to the eyeball and could only ease the pain by wearing prescription eyeglasses for nearsightedness, that make the muscles pull the eyeball into a football shaped sphere, rather than letting my eyeball be round.
That pain is gone without wearing my glasses. Also the slope from frontal bone to nasal bones has changed. My frontal bone is bulgier which would give me a larger frontal sinus.
Nothing yet has changed at the bottom of the nose openings, it's soft tissue and probably won't change much if any.
I am not at the stage where we expand the sides of my dental arch where the pre-molars sit. I've had my entire front chained in for the last 4 months to create crowding, this was done on purpose to see if the brackets are in an absolute perfect position. Crowding on 2 teeth occured so brackets had to be moved and a thick crown needs to be fixed.

It's now week 2 or so that I don't have my teeth chained in and pulled together...I have a 1mm gap at the bottom showing expansion. My upper palate is SLOW...BUT, I've been able to place my tongue into my upper palate and rest it there since month 6. It is now month 7.5-8 and I have been able to enjoy my new tongue placement for 2 month and am very happy about that alone.

Just wanted to post my thoughts to let people know that even if your facial asymmetry isn't fixed...having the proper bite and tongue placement alone makes a big difference in facial health and feeling of well being.

Suvetar said...

Here is a link that helps understand how much the tongue is envolved in building proper dental arches and to keep orthodontic treatments stable afterwards.

Hope the link works:

Anonymous said...

May I ask what your total costs will be in addition to the 1700.00? thanks

Anonymous said...

Hi Ryan,
Just a quick post to enquire about your progress thus far with the homeoblock? Have you noticed any changes in your cheekbone or jaw area? I know the website says three months can produce significant results. I know you mentioned the teeth shifted some while ago. Also, has it impacted your nasal breathing in a positive way?

Bianka said...

Anonymous May 23, 2011 9:11 AM - I do see changes in her jaw; I believe you can see her teeth are more pushed where they should be at the back, in the second photo. I know the Homeoblock may seem attractive to some adults not wanting other options, but for me personally, I never wanted the Homeoblock. I wanted either veneers or invisalign or traditional braces, but my dentist recommended it to me as a better option, because my jaw was not in place properly. I never even knew that was the case.

I went to the dentist again a few days ago, and turns out he didn't have the Homeoblock in mind, but rather the DNA appliance (he said they were almost identical, and that they were created by the same guy - Dr Singh. From my research, it appears both he and Dr Belfor had some involvement in Homeoblock's creation). He said the DNA is slightly better than the Homeoblock but essentially that it's a different name for almost the same thing. Have you heard of it Ryan? It's worn between 5pm and 8am every night/morning, and I'll only be wearing it for 6 months to a year (not 24 months like initially planned)... Then invisalign or a bottom brace. I suspect now he wants to use the device as a means for expanding the jaw enough for other orthodontic measures. Should still see some facial results though - will be interesting!

Anonymous said...

I too am now curious about the DNA (Daytime-Nighttime Appliance):

I emailed an orthodontist around my area about the differences or advantages and he assumes they both do the same thing. From what i have read from the DNA website, the DNA uses a Do-not-adjust wire which requires little or no adjustments from your Doctor.

Dr. Singh developed the DNA (Daytime-Nighttime Appliance). Also note that the DNA (Daytime-Nighttime Appliance) carries Dr. Singh's name and Homeoblock mainly carries Dr. Belfor's name. He also says Dr. Singh is the developmental specialist that came up with the idea. They both worked together.

DNA websites has some profile photos. HB website has 3-d imaging to quantify the results metrically.

I have a HB appointment soon and i am going to inquire about the DNA. I am now thinking about setting up an appointment with a certified DNA doctor. Although more information on both HB and DNA (from patients) would be useful.

Bianka said...

Hi Anonymous June 8: here's a blog by someone who has recently started the Day and Night Appliance, which will be good to follow - There really isn't too much information on the web about it (similarly to the Homeoblock).

What would you say would be the advantages of putting such an appliance in before other orthodontic measures? Both a jaw expander appliance AND invisalign or traditional braces afterwards is a lot of money put together (over $9,000 I believe) so I really want to make sure both are going to be necessary. I have my doubts - surely you can just use braces by themselves?

I've been reading many comments today from people saying adult jaw expansion truly isn't possible. This comment (quoted apparently from a dentist) is worrying (and there are many people saying this):

"If a palatal expander is used without the surgery - then all the appliance is doing is pushing the roots and crowns of the teeth off their foundation. There are plenty of documented cases where the teeth get pushed off the bone and actually cause the gum on the outer surface of the teeth to recede and cause some periodontal issues."

Thoughts? Of course, I've only read all this a few days before I see my dentist for the mould impressions, etc!

Anonymous said...

Hi Bianka, June 8 - I think the advantages would be that you get a broader more developed arches before the Dr. tries to correct and position the minor malocclusion that you have left after the appliance? Therefore the orthodontist has more "space" to work with afterward. Then again I am no epigenetic or orthodontic specialist, just my own rationale.

To the dentist and people saying adult expansion is not possible, have they even heard of - homeoblock, DNA, or Epigenetic Orthodontics (I wonder)? And have they proved it does not work, and have the evidence to back up their claim? And are they following what is mainstream at the moment? All this seems relatively new.

What i am interested in is the development of underdeveloped mid-face and jaws

According to Dr. Singh Co-Inventor of Homeoblock, after continuing the research that he started he developed the DNA applianceTM. He has a book that has further information on it, but is around 300 USD, "Epigenetic orthodontics in adults" (looks like a professional medical book).

Hopefully the Dr. I'm going to see knows about both appliances and if not I will make an appointment with a DNA certified Dr.

I currently have traditional braces but after doing research i am thinking of canceling them (which i believe i have to pay a lot to get out of braces contract)if this Homeoblock or DNA looks promising. I wonder if there are any negative side effects or repercussions from using these appliances? The websites show nothing but positive effects.


Primal Palate said...

Hi Bianka,

I was worried about that, too, that roots will be pushed outside the bone and gum will receed.

I've been researching the Damon System and been literally interviewing orthodontists in my area and over e-mails about this.
It is true, that this can happen but only if done by inexperienced doctors and their old fashion way of widening the arch. The old fashion way had to use a LOT more pressure to crack the palate, and teeth were actually tipped outward.
Now they know that too much force causes all these problems. Now they work with mother nature through bone remodeling...rather than forcing bone.
It's too much to type, I copy/pasted a link to web site that explains how everything works.

Kim said...

looking forward to your updates! i hope you can achieve the results you're seeking. how long is your course of treatment?

Ryan Koch @ Health Matters to Me said...


My treatment is indefinite as of now. I have not seen my dentist for a few months now and will hopefully see him soon so I can ask him. Things are still moving and looking pretty good. My airway does feel more open, as well.

Bianka said...

I have received the DNA Appliance and so far, so good. No pain as yet and it's very comfortable to wear. My only gripe is that I can't talk with it in (it SIGNIFICANTLY affects my speech). The dentist said I'll get used to it, but it's very large, and I doubt I'll ever be able to speak with it in, without some sort of impediment. However, it's a minor issue for something that should produce very positive results. The minimum time for my treatment will be 12 months.

Anonymous said...

Are we sure this device is causing actual bone expansion and not just pushing the teeth out to the edge of the jaw bone (which may, eventually, cause your teeth to become loose)? I looked for X-rays (i.e. proof of bone expansion) on the Homeoblock website and couldn't find any.

Anonymous said...

My concern with the Homeoblock is that the actual bite itself won't be changed.
Let's say bone remodels itself to a wider dental arch and teeth are not tipped, how does that correct the actual bite itself?
Someone with a malocclusion with continue to rest the lower jaw in the wrong position because the teeth themselves aren't moved forward, backward or in height so they could all touch.

And a 3-4mm expansion is mostly due to teeth being tipped into their straight position (or even outward).
Regardless, I think the Homeoblock might still slightly benefit those with obstructive sleep apnea and a V-shaped upper dental arch (premolars tipped inwards).
For a greater expansion (greater than the 3-4mm tipping) other methods work probably better.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ryan,

what is your experience with the Homeoblock so far? Do you only have it in at night?
Has much moved yet? Where do you feel the pressure? Keep us updated, thx :-)

To Anonymous July 23. 2011 said...

The old way of getting expansions done was to apply as much force as the patient could tolerate. That's why it was important that people didn't have a fused palatal suture.
That is also why they kept saying adults can't achieve a wider palate because bone is fused. Orthodontists did not know that bone actually remodels itself under light, constant pressure.

The entire face bones, especially the maxilla, will remodel itself to a wider one. A certain pressure has to be applied so that bone remodels instead of teeth being pushed outside bone. When the pressure is too high, bone remodeling stops and teeth will move out of bone, causing ALL the problems you read on different web sites that don't know ANYTHING about bone remodeling.

The science of bone remodeling has only been out a few years (2005 I think)...most dentists don't even know about it.

I am undergoing slow palatal expansion atm (I'm 40 years old) and non of my teeth have moved outside any bone. My dental arch, and therefor palate, is wider and I now have a correct tongue resting position. I have another year to go but so far this is pretty awesome.

construction said...

Hey Ryan, I have a narrow palate too and just recently discovered that it's causing me a lot of problems. I'm 20. I have extreme anxiety and breathing issues at night. And because I've slept on my side and stomach at night my whole life.. I've noticed my face is asymmetrical.. and my cheeks are somewhat saggy-looking (you can see white under my irises while looking at me straight-on).

I'm depressed. I get really bad headaches when I get stressed out (usually around finals). I feel as though this is unfair and I don't deserve this..

I've been trying to find something that would work for me. An Ortho told me to get Damon Braces.. for 5.6k! But I can't afford that.. I'm a poor college girl.

I'm looking into ALF.. as I heard Homeoblock has not been shown to work since it's so painful people usually give up on the treatment.

I was just wondering if anyone has information on ALF and if it has proof of validation..

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hi Hayley

"I feel as though this is unfair and I don't deserve this.."

THAT is exactly how I felt when I finally figured out what was wrong with me, reading Weston A. Price's Book and other documents about this.
I blamed my mother for a long time and was quite pissed at her for being so selfish to just have a baby, without caring what it'll look or feel like as an adult. Why would someone with a cleft palate, harelip, hair loss and tooth loss after severe tooth decay, malnutrition, weight gain and diabetes decide to have a baby?
All of us siblings were actually planned!!! But she never planned on the nutritional part, she just wanted to be pregnant and raise kids. And all she ever said was :" You should be thankful you're alive and have all your limbs."
Hmm...really... I guess I should be after knowing what she ate before and during the pregnancy with me...

Ramiel Nagel has lots of positive things to say about the ALF on his web site and in his book Cure Tooth Decay. But you have to start out with an already semi normal occlusion to begin with, I don't think it can be used on things like 'Open Bites'.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ryan,
So How are you doing with the homeoblock? Does it really expand the palate or does it only change the tooth position, without expansion? Does it actually changes tooth position or does it xpand and tooth take their place? Do you feel changes in your respiration and look?

I also wanted to know, is there a limit to this procedure, or if we change the appliance when needed, we can expand as long as possible, until you became very very good looking and attractive. Maybe it depends on the teeth you still have ?

Good luck

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone,

My 8 month homeoblock update is up now:

Anonymous said...

Hey all!

My name is Indra, I´m 27 and live in Europe, Estonia. And was just surfing the web for adult palate expansion. The thing is, as most of you here, my upper jaw is too small and the lower jaw adjusts itself by the upper jaw. So I have cross-bite as well. But besides that my teeth are healthy and white :)

I have always known that there comes a time when I have to do something about my teeth. As a child I had a big gap between my two front teeth and I was very unhappy and ashamed about it. But the gap grew smaller over time so now it´s about 1mm. I wore braces too, but they looked more like Homeoblock or DNA, so I think things could be worse if I haven´t wore it.
Otherwise I think I look quite nice :)

I also feel like my tongue is too big, it just doesn´t have enough room in mouth and I hold it rather down where it has more room.

I have always thought that my teeth would look fine by the time I´m 30. I just turned 27 and realised that 30 is just around the corner! So I went to see a dentist (Dr Marju Varu┼íkin, Kaarli Hambapolikliinik - I´ll add the names and places in case some estonian will come across this some day). She gave me some hope that upper jaw could be widened in adults and it´s no problem. She suggested the Damon Braces System and said we could also try expanding with palatal expandor, I assumed it´s that metal thing put into your upper jaw.

Anyway, I also went to see two other dentists. One was trained in England and has a lot of knowledge in cosmetic orthodontics (Dr Kirsten Nigul, Kliinik32). She has also worked with InVisalign. She said that without upper jaw operation not much could be done, just some small changes.

The third orthodont, a man who also teaches other orthotonts in the University of Tartu (in Estonia) said the same thing (Dr Raul Varul, Ortodontiakeskus). He assured me that some palate expansion may be possible but not as much as 5mm that I would need. He scared me that teeth could be pushed out of the bone. But he didn´t exactly promo the surgery either, but said that it has some great risks as well - all whitch we already know.

So I just couldn´t believe that this is it! And I found Ryan´s blog and all the great people in it! Thank you so much for your comments and thoughts, it´s been priceless.

For know I decided to go to see the first doctor again, the one who first gave me some hope. She also said that many people with the same problem have been coming to her. So may be she´s just the right one for know.

I´ll be sure to ask her about devices like Homeblock.

Waiting for Ryan´s update and all the best to ya all!

melian said...

Hi Ryan and other readers,

I want to know if a life-long retainer has to be worn to keep expanded palates? I am considering Homeoblock treatment.

Thanks and good luck.

Bianka said...

Hello everyone!

Well, it's been about 4 - 5 months for me (approximately - I've lost track!) since I started using the DNA appliance.

I can't stop smiling! The difference in my smile and my jaw is very noticeable already. My teeth have a long way to go but I'm tremendously happy with the results so far. My jaw has expanded about 4.5mm so far.

Melian - from my extensive research, adult palatal expansion IS possible, but it's not stable - so like with any other orthodontic treatment you will need to wear a retainer for the rest of your life while you sleep, in order to maintain your straight teeth and wider jaw.

MessiahMews said...

I agree with Hayley and the anonymous comment below hers.

My parents didn't give much thought to the shitty vehicle that I got stuck in either.

I remember far back as age 9 and the jerk off dentist pulled a permanent tooth instead of the baby tooth that should have been pulled. The permanent one was growing behind the baby tooth.

Plus I was never breastfed, wasn't given vitamins nor minerals either. I remember being fed mostly canned food with meat, which NONE of it was organic.

Plus my mother didn't watch me carefully at age 4, and a horse came into our yard and I was outside playing and it kicked me in the chin. Because of that some of my teeth didn't grow in, particularly 3 wisdom teeth. I had tooth buds destroyed, and on top of that later on, I was given mercury fillings for bad teeth, which eventually poisoned me and destroyed my endocrine system.

As much as I want to do this and face pulling, I'm afraid that I won't be able to due to too many missing back teeth and most of my bottom teeth.

However, I should do well with NCR and hope that it will at least correct my short narrow collapsed face.

I wish we all could be blessed with a third set of teeth. At least as an adult I am getting the correct nutrition, nowt that I know.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to hear about your accident with the horse, Messiah.
It's just too bad that many women don't think about nutrition (other than prenatal vitamins wooopi) before becoming pregnant.
My sisters face is aging horribly. She was born with the big wide head of my mother but an extremely narrow dental arch, lack of maxilla bone and brow bone, because my mother didn't give a bit of thought to nutrition. My sisters feet were also deformed (kinda like in WAP Book, the club feet pictures) and she had to have special shoes with insoles. Her adult teeth were stuck in her facial bones and had to be pulled down with surgery/ortho treatment, during which 8 of her permanent teeth were extracted.....8 !!!!!

Her face is aging prematurely, it collapsed inward, her eyes are sagging badly and the skin hangs down. Her maxiall is non-existant. She can't breathe EVER, snores like a champ and has obstructive sleep apnea. And ALL this just because she was the baby of a nutritional cripple.

Oh well, don't want to turn this into a venting

Good Luck everyone.

Anonymous said...


I'm sure I am not the only one that is curious about your experience with the homeoblock appliance so far.
Can you give us an update on how it's progressing? Possibly some pics if you have time?


Anonymous said...

Does ANYONE have any updates on their palatial expansion appliances? I would REALLY love to hear how things are going. I want to try it out but don't dare invest in it until I hear some end results. Also, someone quoted me $8,000 for the DNA appliance, that seems outrageous! Does anyone know about prices?
Thanks, any help would be great!

Jake of Flag said...

How many cm did your upper and lower jaws expand? Did you notice any marked changes in senses (i.e. enhanced hearing, vision)?

When the weapons have grown dull and spirits depressed, when our strength has been expended and resources consumed, then others will take advantage of our exhaustion to arise. Then even if you have wise generals you cannot make things turn out well in the end. Sun-tzu

Jake of Flag

Anonymous said...

I'd like to remind people that most women and men have no clue about optimal nutrition a la WAP, Primal, ancestral or whatever we're calling it these days. Most mother's want the best for their children and do what they can. It wasn't that long ago that meat was considered a luxury item and was eaten rarely by the masses.

Please, lets not get too haughty now that we know better. We're fortunate that we live in a time and place that we have more choice available to us. WAP found it was cultural wisdom shared that taught individuals of the importance of good nutrition for conception and pregnancy. Our culture has done a woeful job of educating us in this arena. So give the mother's a break.

Bonnie said...

My daughter (Who is 26) is just about to get the DNA appliance. It was a fight with the insurance company, but they have approved the $10,000 cost! That is for upper and lower appliance. We are seeing a Dr. Cortes in NYC for her treatment. She works hand in hand with Dr. Singh and lectures on the topic of EO. My daughter has had a constant headache for five years and it took three years for us to uncover that is was her jaw all along. She had a palate separator at 13 and had two teeth pulled as her mouth is very small. She wore braces for almost five years. One side of her jaw is shorter than the other. Her headaches began after having all four of her wisdom teeth pulled-this disturbance in the precarious balance in her jaw caused the muscles in her jaw/face/ head to spasm-since then pain in her head that does not go away with any pain pills, migraine meds or anything else. She does have some relief from botox shots to the muscles around her head and jaw (she gets those every 3 months). I also think they opened her mouth too wide for the surgery because her TMJ is out of place. After years of braces, she still has a malocculsion and no strength to bite down on her right side (where the headache pain is located).We have been through so much and I really hope the DNA appliance does all it says it will. Our chiropractor raised one concern though- separating the palate too far resulting in constant vertigo. I cannot find anything to support that, but, of course, I don't want her to have permanent vertigo. Any thoughts?

James said...

Hi Bonnie,

I am also looking into the DNA appliance to treat my malocclusion. What insurance company were you able to gain the approval from?

How is your daughter doing with the device?


Anonymous said...

It was nice to see a picture of this DNA appliance. What you have recieved on the upper is nothing more than a standard upper active plate with a “triple screw” and a bunch of Rube Goldbergess finger springs to push your front teeth forward. The triple screw pushes the molars and bicuspids to the side and it pushes the anterior teeth forward. I am currently looking at a picture of this appliance in a book published in 1966 and written by a dentist named Schwarz. Your upper appliance is a combination of a Schwarz plate and a Sagittal Plate. Similar constructs were being used in the 1800′s. The improvement in alignment results from tipping all of your teeth outwards. This is a very simple thing to accomplish (if the patient can actually wear the thing, many won’t tolerate these…..unless you pay $4000 for it….then you will wear it.) and it has as much to do with an alteration in your jaw bone gene expression as it does to the alteration in my brain’s gene expression when I have now come to fully realize what a load of bologna this whole idea is. Sure, when I start getting my dander up my brain gene’s change their expression. The same thing happens when you get punched in the face, when you watch television, when you pay your taxes….
The lower appliance is nothing more than a “spring aligner”. In my practice, I would charge you about $250 for the lower spring aligner and (if I used them, there are better alternatives) I would charge you about $450 for the triple screw apliance. Unfortunately, I can tell you that there has been no change in the transverse dimension of your maxilla. Zero studies show long-term stability of non-surgical palatal expansion in adults. If you stop wearing a retainer, your teeth will go right back to where they started, with the possible side-effect that your bite will be worse. This is the risk of tipping teeth outwards with removeable appliances. A few months of braces could accomplish the same thing and obtain an identical result, except the teeth would be straighter because there is more control. It would also have been a lot more comfortable than those things. I suspect that the reason you are asked to wear them part time is to get more patients to accept the treatment. The notion that increased growth factors during the evenings makes them work better is laughable at best. If you wear them full time they will do what they are going to do faster….no question.
Regarding Joel’s reply to Charli: Joel believes that epigenetics is using stimulation rather than mechanical force, and that stem cells in the periodontal “suture” recieve “signals”. This is Orthodontics 101. The mechanical force is the stimulus which recruits osteoblasts and osteoclasts from within the periodontal suture which makes tooth movement possible. Clearly, the appliances shown by Charli are producing a mechanical force resulting in the stimulus to the pdl (periodontal ligament) just like those rough old traditional orthodontic forces. I can tell you that the forces produced by today’s braces are much much much much lighter than the forces which would be produced by Charli’s active plate’s. Joel, please name one developmental mechanism which is influenced by this appliance.
There is nothing different, therefore no new name is deserved.

that's what a very good doctor said about dna appiliance....tks again

Curious said...

I am guessing that the silence on these forums/sits indicate that treatment was a total failure.

Would like to read an update on Ryan's little experiment!

Anonymous said...

Did ryan have a new update regarding the homeoblock?

I was also wondering if Bianka was successful with the DNA appliance.